Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Speed reloading- which powder measure?

I did a time & motion study between manual powder measures and electronic measures a couple of years ago. The manual measure won going away, because I could charge a 50-round loading block of cases in 2-3 seconds each, instead of the 10-20 seconds it took to charge each case with an electronic measure.

Of course I had to seat bullets as a separate operation, but doing that as another mass-production task still beat seating bullets while the e-measure was filling the next case, and by a considerable margin.

Now, if you're convinced that weighing every powder charge to within 1/10th of a grain is necessary for accurate ammo (and a lot of handloaders are, despite vast evidence to the contrary) then an electronic measure is for you. But if you want to load lots of accurate ammo as quickly as possible, a manual measure is the way to do it.

In fact I just did another T&M study and found that I can come very close to matching the output from a typical progressive press while using my turret press, and the ammo is more precise. But I can only do this by using several techniques that eliminate the unnecessary or inefficient steps most handloaders have "built" into their routines over the years.

Sounds like an excellent idea to expand into a full length article for Handloader or maybe Rifle Loony News. (hint, hint )

I already did a short article for GUNS, and a longer article is on my assignment list for VARMINT HUNTER.

Thanks! I don't generally read those two - Rifle, Handloader and Successful Hunter are my only subscriptions - but will keep an eye open for Varmint Hunter. Do you know what issue it will be in?

The way I do it is with 100 round MTM ammo boxes filled with primed brass. That functions as my "case holding block." Then I fill a plastic ice cream bucket with a few pounds of powder. Holding the aluminum funnel in my left hand over each case, I just dip and toss it in the funnel with my right hand. It's very fast!

Upon completion, I give a visual check to make sure the powder levels look the same, then start seating bullets.

JB, I just love having these discussions with you. Let me explain where you went wrong in your T&M study.

The only time it takes me 10-20 seconds to charge a case with my Chargemaster is on the first charge. As I explained before, I run my CM in automatic mode, which means that when I pour the contents of the pan in my case and then place the pan back in the CM, it starts doing its thing without my help. While I have the case in my hands, I seat the bullet and put the completed cartridge away. Then I pick up the next case, brush the neck, place the funnel and then I pick up the pan and drop the contents in the funnel. Charging the case takes but a second, faster than a powder measure. I put the pan back on the scale and carry on as usual. In other words, I let the equipment do its work while I do mine. It's a lot like having multiple processors in a computer.

Where you went wrong in your T&M study is that you had the electronic dispenser start its work while you were waiting for it, because you wanted to compare apples to apples, in this case, charging the powder. I think we all agree that's is not the optimum use of a device like the Chargemaster.

That's the way I did it too, so now I'm wondering about your loading rate?

Can you load 250 rounds or more per hour? If so, then I'm very interested.

Which is about 60% of what you can comfortably do on a Dillon 550B. I know the powder measure isn't a Redding but I think it'll load all but LR hunting/F-class ammo okay if you can live with ball powder.

I've wondered about using a powder die/funnel at station #2 (550) and dropping a charge already dispensed from an RCBS Chargemaster. Surely someone has tried that for a comparison. I've never wanted to pony up the money for one. I have heard of nothing but problems with the Pact and the Lyman units. Maybe the Chargemaster is the one. Many here seem pleased with theirs.

No, I cannot do much more than about 100 or so .308 match loads in about 45 minutes. I always charge and seat 100 cartridges per batch but I only pick up each cartridge once to charge and seat, rather than twice the way you do it. My bullets are extremely long and I take my time seating them. Almost invariably the CM beeps signaling it has finished dispensing the next load before I have the next case's neck brushed. When do you brush the neck of your cases?

You must understand that I only pretty much load my LR match ammo these days. I read what you said about deviation but I am a bit anal about my LR loads; I do want them to read the exact number that I set the CM to dispense. I don't even want to second guess my ammo in competition, I have enough other issues to deal with.

The other neat thing with the Chargemaster is that it takes but an instant to change loads.

I worked as a power plant operator for many years and i do not like things beeping at me, I have a toaster that beeps when the the bread is toasted it may get punted one morning, so a machine that takes the solitude away from ammo crafting is not for me.......I'm for a beep free zone.

I don't guess you are a fan of shooting timers?

I brush case necks before sizing. The 250 rounds per hour includes neck brushing, which I do with a tiny amount of lube on the brush, combining two steps.

Thanks, fellas. I appreciate it.

I have always used the method of seating a bullet while waiting for the e-dispenser to finish throwing the next charge, but there is one added detail that throws a wrench in that idea- I often load ammo with a partner. It makes no sense for one guy to sit and wait for the e-dispenser to throw a load, while the partner seats a bullet. This is why I want to move to thrown charges. One guy can be throwing powder charges, while the other seats bullets. This should cut down on the total time required to charge and seat bullets considerably.

After speaking with Jim Johnson about his Quick Measure, I've just placed an order for one of his units. He assures me that they are seeing ~0.1gr precision with about a 50gr charge, using powders like IMR4350. I know that I probably don't need that level of precision, even for the 1000yd shooting that I do, but I got so used to 0.1gr consistency with the e-dispenser, that I can't settle for anything less now (right, MD ). Darn OCD. Even if I see 0.2gr variation, life will probably still go on.

[quote=Take_a_knee....I've wondered about using a powder die/funnel at station #2 (550) and dropping a charge already dispensed from an RCBS Chargemaster. Surely someone has tried that for a comparison. ...[/quote]

Of course they have though here a slightly slower operation for extreme accuracy. Dillon machines have been used to load vast quantities of Palma ammunition for the Palma match itself and for other matches under Palma rules as a search on Dillon and Palma will show at some length.

I have no idea what the production rate might be.

As the Precision Shooting booklet on reloading says about reloading for highpower competition at some point the time is better spent at the range rather than at the bench refining the load. Myself when I was shooting NRA pistol my best ammunition had my own cast bullets weighed dead nut nearest tenth on a Lyman Ohaus no +/- and the same for the charge of Bullseye. A total misallocation of my resources at the time I should have dryfired or used an air pistol instead of watching the beam oscillate.

FREX text and pictures on the web

"For most of my reloading I de-cap, full-length size, prime, and seat bullets with a Dillon progressive press. However, I've removed the Dillon powder measure and replaced that with a funnel. I throw the charges with an RCBS UniFlow, then trickle to 0.1 grain, and weigh each charge with a Denver Instrument APX-200, a milligram lab scale. Once I'm satisfied with the charge, I pour it through the funnel into the re-sized case. Then the loading procedure returns to progressive mode......... The best guns I have will shoot about .4 MOA..... " John Whidden

You can disable the beep if you want. I like it because it keeps me moving and provides feedback.

Well, you got me. There is now way that I can pick up 250 cases twice, once to brush and charge and then once to seat a bullet, in 1 hour. That's just too much for me, I would probably fumble something at that rate.

On some cases I don't even brush the necks. A lot of my varmint-round dies just neck the outside of the neck down, and I haven't found not brushing makes any difference in accuracy. In fact it may even even out bullet-pull, by preventing cld-welding between the bullet and neck.

Also, I only neck-size many varmint cases, so don't lube the outside of the cases. When I have to lube the case (as when FL sizing .223's for 3 different rifles) the production rate goes down to about 200 an hour.

Enough, enough, your feats of productivity are astounding and I stand in awe. I think the OP now has a goal and a method to get there.

For me, I will just keep doing it the way I described earlier because I know there is simply no way I can pick up and put down 500 cases in an hour. I would probably scrunch a couple of fingers seating one of the 250 bullets.

One day, you need to make a video of your handloading methodology and post it somewhere so I may learn.