Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Cylical rate 2 rounds in 68 years

300 AAC Blackout/ 7.62�35
Bullet weight 125 gr
Velocity 2,215 ft/s
Energy 1,360 ft�lbf
2011



8mm Kurtz / 7.92x33
Bullet weight 125 gr
Velocity 2,250 ft/s
Energy 1,408 ft�lbf
1943

What was needed was a cartridge that could be used in a lighter, more maneuverable rifle to bridge the gap between submachine guns and rifles. The standard issue 8x57mm IS cartridge case was shorten by 24mm. With a case length of only 33 mm, the Kurz round was substantially shorter and delivered less recoil than full-length 8x57mm IS, but was still as effective when engaging targets at typical combat ranges of 300 m (328 yd). This meant it could be fired effectively from a weapon that weighed less than a machine gun, yet still had much greater range, velocity, and stopping power than the 9mm Parabellum which was standard in German submachine guns.

It's pretty close to the 7.62x39 as well. I think that was its intended market.

Yes, and it is supposed to feed slicker than snot...from the AR mags you now own.

the more things change the more they remain the same. If anyone could prove to me in any way shape or fashion that the 300 ACC blackout shot from a 16 inch barreled rifle was more deadly on WT deer or pigs or black bear under 300 yards than a 5.56 shooting 62 or 70 grain TSX bulllets out of a 16 inch barrel I would buy a Noveske Rogue hunter in this caliber tomorrow. That's not going to happen so my money stays in the bank. I have developed an immunity to marketing BS. On the other hand if I wanted a silencer this is the gun I would buy. Hey another thought look at 125 grain 357 magnum bullets shot from a 16 inch carbine at 2000 FPS.

You may be right. The conventional wisdom used to be that a 223 was totally unsuitable for deer and hogs, we now know that is not the case. The reason is bullet makers made better bullets.

I suspect though that a 125gr Ballistic Tip at about 2300fps will surpass anything else you can load through an AR mag out to about 200yd, but there is only one way to find out. If anyone knows of any ballistic gelatin tests on a similar load I'd like to see them.

AAC introduced the Blackout to meet a need: a SAAMI spec alternative to the .300 Whisper. The .300 Whisper is nothing more than a .300 Fireball (AKA .300/.221) with a fast-twist barrel so it can handle heavy bullets at subsonic velocity. The reason the Blackout was needed is JD Jones, who did not design the round but only worked up heavy-bullet loads, patented the cartridge to keep other manufacturers from making barrels, rifles and ammo. Jones seems to do that with every cartridge he works with. Of course you could get .300 Fireball and .300/.221 barrels with fast twist, but you couldn't walk into Walmart and buy ammo for it.
.300 AAC simply legitimized it so the big ammo makers can make ammo for it.
.300 Fireball and .300/.221 is the wildcat version, originally with 1:12" barrels. It is just a .30 caliber cartridge that you can make from .223 brass. When it first came about, there was no such thing as reloadable 7.62x39, and even the military stuff was hard to find and generally corrosive. Even now the .300 Fireball and its variants are a better choice for the reloader than 7.62x39, for a variety of reasons.
BTW, the .300 Fireball was originally developed by wildcatters for the Remington XP100 pistol, not the AR.

I don't know of gelatin, but I do konw that 125s out of the x39 impressed me a LOT over the last years. I typically hate BT bullets, but driven that slow they seem to work really good. 300ish pound boar shot through the ribs, only made about 50 yards before tipping over, after he'd seen me sneaking up on him and spooked but gave me a fleeting shot... spooked hogs typically go a ways...

did the bullet go thru him? What bullet was it? I am on the fence. I feel that velocity kills better than diameter as long as you get a pass thru.

The Indians killed buffalo with a stick with a rock tied to it. That should tell you that anything that will go fast enough the enter an animals body in the right area will kill it. We need one or two new cartridges every year, what else would we talk about if we didn't have them, please keep them coming. I don't want to be bored in 2012.

The 8mm Kurz was developed first.

REALLY?!

Tracy, I'm glad you said it! I've been very amused by the excitement over the Blackout, which is nothing but another name for a .300 Whisper. Now that Hornady is loading the Whisper, I look forward to the debate on which is the better round... Of course, Hornady is saying that the round is compatible with the Blackout, but I'm sure someone is anxious to argue about it.

And for anyone interested in some more Whisper/Blackout/.300 Fireball/.300/221 data, I just found a range note card with some results from my Contender 14" barrel (1-10" twist):

17.1 gr VVN110/Fed 205 Primer/125 gr Ballistic Tip
3 Shots thru Oehler 35 at ten feet: 2114 fps;2130 fps;2127 fps for an average MV of 2123 fps.

Anyone want to discuss the .30 Apache?

I asked Jeff a question pardner, I am curious if what ever bullet it was shot thru the 300 pound pig. Right now I am assuming its the .308 caliber bullet but I don't know if they make the russian .310 caliber in a BT.

75ish yards, shield was about 1.5 inches only. Complete pass through, entry a bit bigger than 30 cal, exit about nickel size.

Me... I don't need a couple of new cartridges every year... thats a sales waste of time IMHO. Of course some folks can't resist and thats cool too. Just not my boat.

New cartridges = AAD

BTW it was .308 not .311

Don't know AAD, google didn't help me...

Every now and then a new cartridge gets catches my eye, but lately the only new one that has was teh 7 wsm, and since its inception, as much as I want to have one, I have not taken that plunge yet.

The most recents adds were boring 308 and 284 Win...though I did pick up a 257 wtby a couple of years back thats been sitting in the box since...

the more I hunt with my AR the better I like it. The 6.8 and 6.5 are very intriguing in the power area, the 300 BO is intriguing in "fits into the same magazine". It really is aimed at the subsonic silencer market with the twists in the barrels.

now that I know the BO is just an X39, I'd just do the X39 and put a can on a fast twist tube.... why would you go specialized to get .04 shorter case?

Mags are no issue.

Jeff, my only sane reply will be to ask "who jumps on the bandwagon with it". Would I to be holding a good 7.62 x 39 AR rifle or upper in a 16-18 inch configuration the BO would be a "so what". OTOH If the freedom group (rem, barnes, AAC) do what they say they will do and you do not own a X39 upper and you absolutely must have a .30 cal in an AR, if, if, if etc. then why not? When I see hundreds of thousands of rounds of that $12/box 123 grain ammo hit the shelves then they will start to be doing what they said they would do. Here is my puzzler. I have not owned a 30 30 in about 10 years I think, do I want to find and buy and old Winchester AE or put the $500 toward a new upper in 30 cal? Pros and Cons with both approaches. The most absurd thing I could do would be to buy a Noveske BO, put a new 3.5 x 10 x 50 Conquest on it, buy new dies and bullets and hunt with that gun next year. Putting an aimpoint on my colt carbine.