Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Wyo got shafted ...again...

Harju I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and accept your reasons why you left the Game and Fish Deparment. I appologize for being wrong about that.
I do however take exception to your constant and persistant bashing of the ag community in general. I had nothing to do with any of the things you think may have been done in an effort to "get" you, I don't even know anybody that did such things.
I have not ever over grazed blm land, nor have I caused a cheatgrass invasion. Neither have any of the people I know.I also would of thought that you would know grazing allotment numbers are set by the managing agency and fines levied against the lease holder for exceeding those numbers. So any over grazing is a dual fault, both the agency and the leasee are at fault if over grazing occurs.
I do not understand why you blame people for trying to hang on to their lively hood.
I will also tell you that if you know of anyone who truly is threatening you while trying to keep you from "public" land then you need to call the local law enforcement, and the land management agency in charge of the land.
So once again I will say I am sorry for mistating the reasons for your sudden departure from the game and fish.
So there's my appology.

Buzzy,
I called you a liar on the court issue and you have proven me right. Show us a court decision that back up your claims.

Wyoming�s wolf plan is scientifically sound but might not be politically correct. The USFWS agreed that Wyoming�s plan met the FEIS requirements and we were legally killing wolves.

I realize your job has trained you to simply go along with the easy route and don�t stick out and you will do OK. Some others are not so inclined.

Wyoming can always go to the Trophy game status and down the road if we really lose the fight then it will be what it will be.

Right now the USFWS is lethally managing wolves in Wyoming using radio collars and helicopters so we are actuality in better shape than ID and MT concerning the damage to our big game herds.



You should at least understand the guy's name is Malloy on Molloys. Malloy�s ruling set absolutely no legal precedence but it did establish him as an activist judge.



You assertions that any wolf hunting 10 years ago would have been possible is simply ludicrous based on the unassailable fact that the USFWS did not attempt to delist the wolf until Feb of 2008. Simply stupid to try and change that history simply because it does not fit your narrative.

Anyone with access to that thing called GOOGLE would see the actual truth.

Malloy??????

Burns,

Are you sure the USFWS is killing wolves?

Last I checked, Gov. hunters were under the USDA.

Are you saying that the USDA is not killing wolves in Montana and Idaho now that they're delisted in those states?

I also just read that Idaho has approved helicopter hunting in the Lolo zone as well.

Maybe you should take your own advice and try google.

If the USFWS approved WY's plan...then why isnt Wyoming still hunting wolves??? Answer if you can.

Burns...still dont think the courts shot down Wyomings plan?

Last year, the federal government attempted to take wolves off the endangered species list. The same coalition of conservation groups sued, and Molloy ruled the federal effort was illegal because Wyoming's wolf management plan was inadequate.

Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/local/article_e36346d2-9d4f-11de-98ba-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1gxJM9o27

Try google...

Burnsie,

Official court findings...pay attention to pg. 49....

http://www.jhalliance.org/Library/Alerts/2010/MolloyWolfRuling.8-10.pdf

You tired of getting spanked yet?

Damn it.

Molloy.

Of course that does not change the fact that no court has ever ruled that Wyoming�s plan is "unscientific" or that it does not conform to the FEIS.

Buzzys claims to the contrary are just as frivolous as before and he is still a liar in claiming otherwise. Show us an actual ruling Buzzy or shut your yap.

As always Buzzy was for the reintroduction but now wants to blame Wyoming for the problems.

Buzzy if there was no reintroduction, which you wanted, then we would not even be having this discussion.

Yes you would. The NW Montana wolves would have made it there by now, regardless of the introduction.

WOW just WOW I just hope you guys keep your wolfs up there and kind of corraled. I don't think I want none down here.

If they do happen to get loose or something do wolf's catch mange?

Over the last three or so years the mange has almost wiped out the coyote population in my part of the world. Just this year do I see a couple with hair.

Serious question do wolf get mange?

They do.

Especially prone if they've been hanging out with Bent.

Well then could there be some way to intorduce some mange into the wolf herd. Sort of let nature take her course then. I would guess a hairless wolf would find it kind of difficult to survive a northern winter.

Not to worry.....a lot of the coyotes up here have it...only a matter of time.

sure is entertaining watching all the .gov boys band together and get there panites bunched up!

Now along will come buzz or the blm guy with a quick but stinging retort (in their minds anyway).

mange already been 'introduced' to the wolves here

USDA/WS is contracted to do the killing for USFWS.

This would be correct...

I am almost embarrassed to say I read this whole thread. As a person who doesnt have a dog in the fight other than I will be hunting big game in one or both of these states in the future, I will throw my .02 in.

I dont like wolves. Lets make that clear.

It appears to me that WY gambled for a more lucrative plan and lost (or is at least losing to this point). IF....IF they would have won, they would have been ahead of ID and MT. but they didnt. So at this point, what should WY do? Fold the tent and accept a plan similar to MT and ID or keep going all in with the path they are on? I for one, would like to hear opinions on whether they should keep pressing for what they want. And add to that, at what point should they fall back (or should they never fall back)?

Nice orange there Buzz, since you are so eager to turn everyone else in for not wearing orange or enough orange on their rifle hunts. Your arrogance, hypocrisy and childishness never ceases to amaze me. Nice going on the "sub adult" bucks and bulls. Flinch


No orange on a rifle antelope hunt...good going Buzz.


This does't even qualify as the minimal amount, especially when wearing a back pack of the top.

Berettaman,

What you stated is pretty much correct. The EIS outlined general guidelines of what was to be included in the States wolf management plans. One part was that each plan must assure that required wolf minimums would be maintained. A state couldnt draft a plan that would elimate wolves basically.

Another requirement was that ALL three states had to have an accepted plan in place to trigger the delisting for the entire wolf recovery area (MT, ID, and WY).

Looking back...MT and ID should have cut ties and not made that agreement with Wyoming. When the states started drafting wolf management plans, MT and ID certainly thought that WY would also come up with a plan. MT and ID drafted excellent plans and those were accepted when the wolf numbers climbed high enough to meet the EIS.

Wyomings plan has been a problem due to the dual classification from the start. There was concern by MT, ID, biologists, etc. etc. that their plan to have unregulated hunting in 70% of the state in the predator zones.

Many, including myself, realized as far back as 2003-2004 that Wyomings plan wasnt going to fly.

Court cases, injuctions, legal wrangling off all sorts over WY's plan kept wolves listed from 2004-2008. A very brief window as opened in 2008, where Wyoming was open in the predator zone for wolves, but there was no legal hunting season conducted in any state. Within a month or so, another court order relisted them and WY was shut down.

In 2009, Montana and Idaho, with their ACCEPTED State plans, proposed a season...that was promptly taken to court. Judge Molloy ruled that the hunts in MT and ID would not impose any long-term damage to the wolf populations in MT and ID and the hunts commenced. In the same ruling, Molloy also stated that if any group wanted to file a lawsuit, he would be forced to relist the wolves because Wyoming still did not have an accepted plan. He followed the law per the FEIS that stated that one wolf population could not be delisted via state lines.

Right after the seasons in 2009, a lawsuit was filed and Molloy did exactly what he said he would be foreced to do, relist. I was in Missoula the day the ruling came out, and a close friend was in the courtroom when Molloy made that ruling. I talked with my friend and he told me that he believed Molloy was not real happy with having to relist. He based this on having attended previous rulings on the wolf issue. Like he said, "it wasnt like he didnt warn them in the last court case".

Long before this happened MT and ID now were totally aware that Wyomings bull-headedness was not going to change. Left with little option other than begging Wyoming to drop the dual classification, MT and ID went another route. MT and ID, along with Senators Tester and Simpson drafted legislation to free themselves of WY's failed state wolf plan via attaching it to the 2010 budget bill.

At that time, WY had ample opportunity to come up with an accepted plan and be part of the Tester/Simpson proposal...but again chose not to. Shortly there-after the Simpson/Tester boat had already sailed from the docks. Most sporting groups, both local and national, in MT and ID were on board. Many letter were written, much lobbying was done, and the simpson/tester rider passed without a hitch...for the most part.

Wyoming, in the meantime, had also tried to go through the national legislature with a bill (I believe H509) that would have gutted the Endangered Species Act. That proposal came about via the Wyoming Wolf Coalition that was made up by the Wyoming Stockgrowers Association, Wyoming Wool Growers Association, Wyoming Guides and Outfitters, Big Game Forever, and Sportsmen for Wildlife. Bad idea, and was destined to fail from the get-go.

All was good, until emails surfaced and public documentes were released by those groups asking for hunters to do everything they could to derail the Simpson/Tester rider.

Wyoming and the above groups were pissed to no end that MT and ID were now working on behalf of the hunters in their states to do whats best for the wildlife found within their borders. Clearly the WWC, BGF, and SFW tried everything they could to stick it to Montana and Idaho and kill the Simpson/Tester rider.

As expected, the WWC proposal flopped, the Tester/Simpson rider passed and in 2011 MT and ID both conducted legal seasons again. In a monkey-see-monkey do lame attempt, Cynthia Lummis tried to pass a no-lawsuit rider in the 2011 budget bill (that failed as per the OP).

To further frustrate Wyoming, Molloy ruled that the Simpon/Tester language did not violate anything in the constituation and no lawsuits over MT and ID's hunts can even be filed...absolutely brilliant on their part. It wasnt easy, but with the help of a lot of hunters and a couple Senators with a spine, Montana and Idaho are on the track to take over full control of wolf management.

Wyoming still isnt in control of wolves and I dont believe they will be for a very long time.

Wyoming called it down...and lost it all.

Flinch,

First of all you can gargle my sack...

Secondly, you're right about nothing...both those bucks I killed this year were 4+ years old...not that you'd know how to tell if they were or not.

As to the no orange photo...does this make you feel better there little tugger:



You can also contact Rod Lebert...he's the warden out of Douglas Wyoming. I shot that buck on a piece of state land and he checked everything out. He also aged the buck at 4+ and wrote in his log book and also on the tag...again I wouldn expect you to know jack chit about antelope...let alone how to age them in the field.

Oh, and yes, in Wyoming there is no minimum amount of orange that you're required to wear...try the regulations there dipchit.

Carry on spanky....