Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Wyo got shafted ...again...

An Opinion from the Casper Star-Tribune's Editorial Board yesterday:

Wyoming missed the boat on getting wolves delisted

Here we go again.

A piece of the fragile deal that held together an agreement between the state of Wyoming and the federal government on wolf management has crumbled.

We�d describe it as back to square one, except Wyoming has been knocked further back than that because of the time it has lost trying once again to manage the wolf population on its own terms instead of accepting a reasonable compromise.

On Thursday, congressional negotiators killed a budget rider proposed by Wyoming Congresswoman Cynthia Lummis that would have prohibited lawsuits against a pending agreement with the feds that would remove Wyoming wolves from the endangered species list.

Gov. Matt Mead and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service reached a highly touted agreement last August. The agency agreed wolves could be deemed predators and shot on sight in all but the northwest portion of Wyoming, where they would be considered trophy game and could only be hunted with a license.

Congress doesn�t have to approve the Wyoming-USFWS agreement for it to go into effect, but Mead and other state officials have repeatedly said that congressional protection against lawsuits � which has been granted to Montana and Idaho � is vital to any agreement.

Negotiators for the House and Senate removed the controversial Wyoming �wolf rider� when they reached a $1 trillion federal spending agreement.

One of the chief opponents of the no-sue clause was U.S. Sen. Jack Reed, D-R.I., one of the budget negotiators. Mead said he was �disappointed� by the action, but we think Wyoming officials shouldn�t have been surprised the provision was tossed from the budget bill.

The Obama administration opposed it, as did several environmental groups that lobbied against the wolf rider. They are still upset that U.S. Sens. Max Baucus and Jon Tester, both Montana Democrats, had successfully attached a similar no-sue clause to a must-pass budget bill last April, which delisted wolves in five Western states � but not Wyoming.

Bill Snape, senior counsel for the Center for Biological Diversity, a conservation group that opposed Lummis� wolf provision, said Wyoming always had an uphill battle in its effort to keep the state from being sued over the USFWS deal.

�This is a different situation than when you had Baucus and Tester doing it,� Snape told Star-Tribune reporter Jeremy Pelzer last Friday. �And Wyoming, arguably, missed the boat.�

Without the provision, the environmental groups and others who opposed the Wyoming wolf agreement will be able to sue to stop it. There�s no doubt they are working on their legal strategies right now.

As we predicted in numerous editorials prior to the deal, the wolf issue now appears headed back to the courts and another seemingly endless � and expensive � round of lawsuits and appeals.

There�s also more bitter fighting ahead between ranchers and wolf advocates.

Wyoming could have seen wolves delisted in the state, as they are in Montana and Idaho, if it had agreed to give up the shoot-on-sight policy and make wolves trophy game in the entire state. If the state had accepted the same terms with the feds that its two neighbors agreed to, it would now be planning wolf hunting seasons instead of returning to litigation.

Wyoming�s management plan, which is now under public comment, could still be approved by next summer. Without the no-sue clause, however, lawsuits could keep it from being implemented for a long time, if ever.

Mead�s press secretary, Renny MacKay, said the governor is confident the state�s Republican congressional delegation will bring the wolf issue back, possibly as a stand-alone bill.

The measure, however, could well meet the same fate as the wolf rider. Wyoming should have accepted statewide trophy game status when it had the chance.


Read more: http://trib.com/opinion/editorial/w...07e-bffc-90457d0a1edb.html#ixzz1h1PpCKJc

Hmmmm???

That sounds familiar...

With this one statement we get to see Buzzy�s real issue. He was for reintroduction and wants wolves across the entire state and then moving into South Dakota, Nebraska and into the elk herds of Colorado and Utah.

Right at this very moment the USFWS, the agency that implements the Endanger Species Act, agrees that Wyoming�s dual classification is a scientifically sound plan that conforms to all aspects of the Final Environmental Impact Statement and the Endangered Species Act. The plan is not "Politically Correct"

The real fight is that most of the proponents of the Wolf reintroduction (Buzzy) want wolves distributed throughout the west. Wyoming�s dual classification zones make it much more difficult for the wolves to move out of the Original Recovery Zone.

While he continually claims Wyoming screwed ID and MT over, it really seems just the opposite could be true.

The Testor/Simpson rider attached to a must pass appropriations bill delists the wolf in 5 states; Idaho and Montana plus Oregon, Washington, and Utah, but not Wyoming? Who screwed who?

Right now if a wolf travels south, crosses what would be the predator zones, and into Colorado it will have the full protection of the ESA.

Another can of worms that statewide trophy status would open is lawsuits that the state is not properly managing a Trophy Game animal. Pretty hard to justify wide open seasons on a �Trophy Game Animal� in zones in which the wolf is not already established. How would Wyoming defend a Quota of, say 20 wolves, to be taken in the Big Horns until there is an established population of wolves eating the elk herds of the Big Horns?

The stated purpose of the reintroduction was not to repopulate the west with wolves but to restore limited populations to very remote areas, with Yellowstone Park being "wolf central" here in Wyoming. Most all thinking people, on both sides of the issue, knew this was the classic �Camel nose under the tent� ruse.

After supporting wolf reintroduction Buzzy now whimpers and whines that Wyoming must immediately give up to save his �public wildlife�. I disagree.

Wolves are being lethally managed in Wyoming. I don�t believe having a trophy status hunt this year will make any major change in the number of elk eaten this year.

Wyoming can go to the Trophy game management in a heartbeat but I for one want to run this Dual Classification thing a little further. I am not convinced it is a lost cause and I feel pretty comfortable that missing one season of trophy management, while USFWS is lethally managing wolves in Wyoming, will not have a major detrimental effect on the elk.

Good thing they don't have minimum intelligence requirements either. You lucked out again blow hard. Does that half ass orange bikini pass in other states? Tell me again why you wear it, since you obviously don't need one anywhere you "hunt". Why don't you just admit that you are a hypocrite and a liar. You can bullshit the fans..... You must gargle the Game Warden's sack in order to get away with the crap you do.

So my 3.5 year old bucks are "sub adult" yet your 4.5 year old buck (according to you)) is suddenly an adult????? Laffin here. Are those bulls 4.5 year old adult bulls too? Did you use the same method to age them???? Keep digging your hole and I will keep feeding your rope there wolf lover. Flinch

You aint too bright Flinch, but what else is new. Pronghorn can reach B&C size by the age of 3.5. In WY all you need is an orange hat to comply with the law. WGAF what the law is in other states if you're hunting Wyoming??

You already changed it but no hunter orange needed in NM, unless on one of the missle ranges and youth hunts on the VC.

In over his head, as usual.

Flinch,

If you ever bothered to read hunting regulations, and if ever hunted outside Utah...you'd know there isnt a hunter orange requirement at all in Arizona...and I didnt wear it there.

Wyoming doesnt have a minimum square inch requirement, only one article of clothing above the waist, and camo orange qualifies. An orange hat is enough.

Montana is 144 square inches...get your ruler out and you'll see just how little that is...camo pattern orange also qualifies.

No, it wasnt according to a third party that my antelope were both 4+, I know they were They could have been older, but unlike you I dont inflate the age of 2.5 year old buck to make it what its not.

Aging antelope in the field from 6 months to 4.5 years is simple. Anything older you cant do it other than by tooth cementum annulation.

Oh, and heres another "side step" from my MT bull...



I didnt hunt NM this year...so not sure where you pulled that out of.

I did hunt NM last year though....3 horns on this one and also 4.5+...



Now, run along and post up some more pics of your "big cows" and "old" pencil antlered 2.5 year old mule deer.

Az doesn't require any orange, thank goodness...

It'd make us too easy a target for cartel snipers...

Ship us some wolves and we'll ship some 'dog burrito' love'n illegals... wait, they're immigrating toward each other already.

Kent

Jeez Rosco...did you read that out of a book? Ever killed an antelope...or anything for that matter? I know antelope deer and even elk once in a while can hit B.C. status very young, especially antelope. That isn't the point. You are REALLY late to the game, and have no clue what you are talking about with regards to "sub adult bucks" but thanks for enlightening me.

Let me help you out a bit. Old buzzy got all over my case for killing 3.5 year old "sub adult" dinks, yet his 4.5 year old bucks are suddenly old age studs. Old Buzz has a great imagination though. You his new buddy?

Oh, so now my bucks are two year old eh Buzz? Good going blowhard. How do you make up all your B.S.? What did that bull go....400+? Laffin...You just keep going and going and going.

Sucks to be me, I didn't get any out of state hunts this year, shame on me. Why can't I be so great, wonderful and all knowing as Buzz the blowhard. Oh yeah, cuz it would be a lonely pathetic life. Flinch

Flinch,

There is no way that an elk can reach B&C status "very young"...add that to the list of things you're absolutely fuggin' clueless about.

Post up a picture of a 375 inch bull elk thats 3.5 years old...or a 190 mule deer buck thats 3.5.

It flat doesnt happen...they dont get B&C sized at a "young age."

I'm sure that pisses you off, as I just crushed your hopes of shooting a B&C 2.5 year old mule deer.

Heres a hint...dont shoot your mule deer out of the nursery herds and you might find one older than 2.5.

NO, I dont know Buzz..

Yes, I've killed a few.Not a real good picture taker tho.

Rosco1...that top buck is wayyyy cool and looks to be a real good one.

Once again Buzz, your comprehension shows your ignorance. Show me WHERE I said a 3.5 year old deer, elk, or goat can be a B.C. critter? Come on, make something up, you can do it. I said "YOUNG", not 3.5 years old....you idiot!! Keep digging. You are batting a thousand.

Check the state record books, there are quite a few white tail, mule deer and speed goats in there that were not old. There are even a few elk. You can read and do research...right? Flinch

Hey Flinch,

How old is this buck...any first year biology student could tell you with no problem that its 4.5+



Heres a pic of the same buck about 30 minutes earlier:

He grossed 83 and change, but barley made awards after drying/deduct..The bottom one is my biggest, net B&C. he looks to have crap prongs, but they are both over 6.He also had lots of deduct as his left horn was considerably smaller than the right..his gross score was rather impressive!

another view of the bottom one

Flinch,

Could you point out in the "record book" the section where they list the age of the animals?

I've about a half dozen B&C and P&Y record books...missed the age section.

Rosco1,

The first photo didnt do that buck any kind of justice...thats a dandy. Congrats!

I've shot a couple that have flirted with Awards...but none that make it.

My wife has shot 2 that make awards in 2007, and 2010.

80 6/8



80 4/8

Antelope...wow...they are tough to hunt.
I never get out of state to hunt either Buzz, but thanks for noticing.Flinch

Texas


Colorado


Colorado, oh and he is 4.5 years old and went over 150. Not bad for a "young" 8 point buck.


Another Colorado 4.5 year old 5x5 dink


I need to get out more. At least a good pissing match brings out some good pics Flinch

Yes..I need to start taking better field photo's..Something I really kick myself over now.

Congrats to your wife, those are both dandy bucks..I've gone two years in row without hunting them..Cant wait for September!