Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Wyo got shafted ...again...

Bigfin I don't know exactly what happened to Moody. I think I recall he left the Wy GFD and went with a FWS bear related job, but I could be wrong on that.
Near as I can tell the only thing that saved MT and Idaho was the 2 democrat senators that MT has, had they not both been in the ruling class, you'ld still be dancing the dance around that halfwit Malloy and his handlers and the 9th circus.

What saved MT was a state wolf management plan designed by hunters and ranchers that was accepted by the USFWS and agreed to by Molloy as acceptable for wolf management.

And, we had a delegation that worked with a Republican, Rep Simpson from Idaho, to get the USFWS ruling of 2009 that delisted in MT and ID to be law. It had nothing to do with Democrat or Republican. It had to do with Simpson and Tester being western legislators who understand the importance of hunting to their constituents.

The bill that got us our seasons was introduced by one Republican and one Democrat. It was opposed by all urban legislators, both Republican and Democrat. And yes, we were lucky to have an upcoming Senate race where the Dems do not want to lose Tester's seat, so they held their nose and accepted it.

The important point is that the two MT senators you mention, listened to the hunters. The one MT rep, who is a Republican, pretty much fought the solution behind the scenes until he saw the writing on the wall. I am a registered Republican, and it pisses me off that he put his partisan BS in front of what we all know was best for MT - getting state control of our wolves.

If we did not have a plan that was already accepted by the USFWS, we could not have circumvented Molloy's opinions. We would still be tied to WY and the ongoing battle WY has with the USFWS/Molloy.

I laugh at all the guys who say MT caved in. We did not cave in. We drew up a plan that reflected the value of Montanans. The committee that crafted the MT plan was stacked with hunters and ranchers, hardly the bleeding heart softies that some like to imply when comparing our plan to WY. It is a plan crafted by Montanans to reflect what we wanted. Naturally it would be different than the ID or WY plans.

I am just thankful we got disconnected from the WY/USFWS battle. And however it happened makes no difference to me. I can now go wolf hunting.

Well this is the second "approoved" plan Wyoming has had. This second plan is still there and still approoved, but without the same safegaurd against the onslaught of lawsuits that Idaho and Mt got, Wyomings legislature is hesitant about going forward with their part of the plan, and rightfully so I believe.

BigFin-which two supposed sportsmans groups got in the rack with the wuff people? Gotta know who not to support in the future.

Thx
Dober

Dober,

Big Game Forever and Sportsmen for Wildlife...

Anyone that knows me knows I am not a fan of the wolf in the lower 48.
Law, or no law, the only good wolf is a dead wolf in the lower 48.

Biker

Thx Buzz

Dober

Answer - What Buzz says. Too bad, but so true.

Reminds we of what my Grandpa would say about folks who betrayed his trust, "I wouldn't trust him in a chit house with a spoon - What he couldn't steal from you, he would try to eat." Kind of sums up my feelings about getting screwed over by SFW and BGF.

You been out trying to kill any of these wolves? A guy like you could be hell on them with your calling talents.

I've got a few ponies I need to get lined out for spring sales. BigFin or Dober.. point me in the right direction from Norris and what you've heard are the most recent whereabouts of the Wuffs and after the Jolly Ole man visits the kids, I may just saddle up and go pound some hills.

I understand the point you are making, however no protection is afforded to nor guidance for management of wild horses are made by the Endangered Species Act. That is provided for by Wild-Free Roaming Horses and Burro Act of 1971. Similarly, lawsuits are not enabled, AFAIK, through either the ESA or WFRHBA. That is provided for through the National Environmental Policy Act of 1969 (and admendments) which provides for appeals to federal decisions, which can and do end up in lawsuits. Just wanted to clear the air on that.

Closest to you would be the pack near Potosi, or those that are starting to follow the elk near Wall Creek. A pack is being monitored way up Johnny Ridge road. Horses would be the way to go after the later. They are still up high.

Good luck.

Pointer the BLM wildhorse people may have a different take on thingss concerning being able to develope and implement management plans.
Put what ever letters, numbers etc you want behind something the feds are supposed to take care of, and they all turn into a cluster flop in short order, that mainly serves to give a handful of federal employees employment until retirement..
I did find it particularly interesting in this last federal register from the FWS on delisting the wolves, that they continually and often pointed to the lawsuits filed by various wildlife groups that have stopped all of the approoved plans. I also found it particularly interesting that Montana and Idaho's plans are still under appeal, and given a judge or two in a pithy mood, those hunts may come to a screaming halt.

And ..... ?

There is hardly anything in the realm of Federal policy that is not being litigated in some way shape or form.

Would take more than a judge in a "pithy mood" to stop those hunts. It would take a legal finding that the delisting ruling of 2009 and the budget bill of 2011 were not in compliance with Federal statute and law.

The hunts have already withstood the legal challenges to this point. They may get overturned if the court finds reason to do so. But most attorneys inolved are pretty confident they will not.

So, we are hunting woves in MT. Enjoying the hell out of those hunts

I might be wrong, but your comments come across that you feel MT and ID have done something wrong in our plans or how we got here. Almost like you hope MT and ID hunts get overturned.

If I am reading that wrong, my apologies in advance.

One more day of work, then two more mornings of wolf hunting. And three days next week.

Good stuff Randy.

I feel inspired. I think my traditional Christmas bird hunt may turn into a wolf hunt this year.

BigFin,

You arent reading it wrong...Ranch13 and Burns are both all chapped up about MT and ID getting wolf hunts and accepted plans.

They both still believe, after 8 years, countless lawsuits, injunctions, whining about judges being "unfair", etc. that Wyomings plan is the "best". I've seen slow learners before...but this is off the deep end.

Burns thinks Wyoming should hold out a little longer...apparently beating a dead horse for 8 years just doesnt quite get the point through???

Ranch13 is now blaming a senator from RI for Wyomings woes and thats funny, considering Wyoming could have been in with ID and MT on the first no-lawsuit rider. Of course, thats not even taking into account that with an accepted plan, WY, along with MT and ID would have had state countrol in 2003-2004 if not for the dual classification in Wyoming.

Wyoming is sailing a sinking ship into uncharted waters...with Captains Benson, Wharff, Haggeman and Peay at the helm.

Huh? I am totally missing the point your are trying to make in the first sentence. All I know is that ESA is NOT used in the management of wild horses or the administration of that program, which you stated previously.

The latter I get, you don't like federal agencies, how they conduct business, or the people hired to do so.

Bigfin if you read the delisting proposal the FWS has published in the federal register, (see the link I posted, and remember the buzzH said they never posted it) they state in their that the court case against Mt and Id are still under appeal. So yep it could end yet.
And no I'm not saying Mt or Id did anything wrong.

Pointer, it is true I think the vast majority of federal agencies can be done away with. It's a sad fact that the federal employees like the Hettick boy and others forget who they are working for and do just as much as they possibly can to keep trouble stirred up, but hide behind uncle sams skirts as best they can.
There are good people in the federal government, its the bad apples that put a stain on the rest.

Ranch13,

Please point out where I said the USFWS never posted the delisting proposal.

Thanks.

Wyoming has kept the wolf issue stirred up since they proposed dual classification.

Also, since Molloy ruled that the Simpson/Tester rider was NOT unconstitutional based on prededence set via other 9th circuit rulings...I'm confident, as are the attorneys in MT and ID, that any further appeals are D.O.A.

Montana and Idaho are on easy street...Wyoming is off in the weeds.