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Hey Dwayne

Merry Christmas to you and the family.

All is good up here woods starting to move again.
How are you doing?

Mike

Mike;
We're all well thanks and somehow my wife and I seem to still be working though it's been a slow go down here for sure lately.

The girls are well though and already out of school for the break - though there are something like 5 basketball practices over the break for our youngest.

We keep on threatening to call some coyotes as we saw plenty of tracks during season here. I might have to drag the old .22-250AI out of mothballs and see what comes in to my howling.

It's good to hear the woods are going again Mike, very good indeed.

All the best to you this Christmas and a safe and Happy New Year to you too.

Dwayne

Bang on, Monashee. The mountain caribou need some older stands of timber in the winter because the lichen called "Goat's Beard Moss" that hangs from the branches is a valuable winter food source. Overlogging of those wintering areas are bad news for the caribou. In addition, high mountain snowmobiling and helicopter skiing tend to chase them out of these areas.

Curbing all those activities probably isn't going to happen.

And on the issue of heavy hunting of other game to encourage the wolves to go elsewhere, many wildlife decisions are made by politicians rather than biologists. It's one of the real frustrations of gov't game biologists - frequently they make recommendations in the best interests of the game populations, only to have them ignored by the policy-makers.

Thanks folks.
One of the best, most accurate discussion I've ever read on wolves. If you understand the peaks and valleys of game populations, you understand wolves and other predators. If man can clip the peaks and fill the valleys a bit, we will have been successful. If we don't want the severe peaks and valleys, we have to kill wolves. Period.
Unfortunately, Canada and Alaskan game managers have to listen to the "greenies and politicians". (Neither of which understand biology.) Most of their decisions are based on politics and not biology. Education is not the answer. Greenies do not care about the biology.
I care. I eat moose, caribou deer, sheep etc. Unfortunately, so do wolves.
My solution...Try to educate as many folks as you can and shoot every wolf you see...

Wish I were there hunting with you guys I know I would have bought a permit for one .They sure are pretty them black ones with them grey silver eyes

Gentlemen, I have to say that I am truly pleased and impressed with the quality of the discourse in this thread, generally indicative of the value of the 'Fire. I tend to shy away from contributing to threads about wildlife management on this or other boards because it so often degrades to the lowest common denominator and becomes a battle between positional statements and unshakeable dogma. The geniality, balance and fair-mindedness you all display is nice and appears to reflect a recognition of the inherent complexity of the topic. It could just be the season of goodwill, but I think not. Just wanted to let you know.

Season's Greetings!

Poison works well.
The problem is that poison is not species specific. As far as I'm concerned that's an acceptable trade off to getting rid of the wolf.

Biker

What poison is used to kill wolves?

(I also understand the comment about [any] poison not being specific to killing whatever ingests it!)

One strategy that has been suggested a number of times to control wolves is to identify and sterilize the alpha male or female. See here:

http://wildernesscommittee.org/news/hunters_fund_wolf_sterilization

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1539566/pdf/canvetj00135-0040.pdf

Do a Google search as I would hate for some nimrod bunny cop to think I'm advocating or participating in a conspiracy.

Biker

The old buffalo hunters and the wolfers would shoot a buffalo,cut slits into the meat all over and put strychnine into the slits. They'd find the wolves within 10 yards of the carcass in the morning.

Primitive man -- Hmmmm! Lots of deer. Ergo - Kill Deer. Eat deer. Mmmmmm! Good.

Primitive man (few years later) -- Hmmmm! Fewer deer, lotsa wolves. Ergo - Kill Wolves. Eat wolves. Mmmmmmm! Good.

Eat whatever happens to be in good supply, while it is in good supply. When something else is in better supply -- eat that! That's the best that my primitive brain can figure -- surely not words like natural balance.

Gronk kill deer. Gronk family eat deer. If no deer, Gronk kill wolf . . . . . . ad nauseum.

Lot's of good posts here - and a few not-so-good.

I'm not naive enough to think men in any area - in any time - all got along together - and I never suggested that. I'm also aware that once modern man allows development in wild areas - game management will be necessary - from that point on.

What does bother me is the suggestion that a healthy wolf population (or any other carnivore - for that matter) is not a desirable condition.If there are more wolves, cougar and grizzlies - will there be fewer ungulates? Yes - if the ungulates are over-populated. But, eventually a balance is reached.

If, temporarily, one species is getting too populous - then, by all means - hunt it back to more desirable levels. By the same token, if one species is becoming rare - then, by all means, protect it.

But unlike many - those who would rather not compete with wild carnivores in order to have an easier time hunting their own game - I want to compete. I want to hunt in ecosystems with a plentiful carnivore population. To me, seeing grizzlies or cougars or wolves while out in the wilds - is at least as big a thrill as shooting a deer. Usually a much bigger one. I can't even come close to remembering every deer I've shot - but I can remember ever single time I've had a close encounter with grizzlies, with cougars, and the times I've been sitting amongst wolves while they howled. It's really the reason why I hunt. Not to kill - but to live. To really live.

I'd hate to live in those places where the top-shelf carnivores are all but gone - just so human hunters can have an easier time bagging their deer. People who live in such places will never know, or appreciate just what they are missing in their own so-called "wilderness" adventures. If they aren't living among predators - they aren't really in the wilderness. They are simply living and hunting in suburbia.

I like the words to the song that said "Don't it always seem a though - you don't know what you've got till it's gone."

I could never enjoy hunting as much as I do - if I didn't run into other apex predators every once in a while while out in the wilds. Even if that means I must compete with them in order to get my own game. Even if it makes my own hunts more challenging. Even when I go home empty-handed.There's a reason why people come to hunt from all over the world to the wilds of British Columbia - and it's not just for the game. It's so they can, for at least once in their lives - know they took part in a real, authentic, wilderness experience.

To fully enjoy the wild places - I need wild places to hunt in where all the species - even the one's that compete with me - are still living there in historic numbers.

That's just the way I'm wired.

Have a merry Christmas everyone!

I agree Brian,a wilderness without wolves,grizzlies and cougars would be an empty place.However control is not extermination,and in some places management will be neccesary and should not be avoided.Ever since man stuck his thumb in the pie things have been out of whack,and management of all big game species will be neccesary to provide opportunities for future generations to hunt them.We should not shy away from this in order to preserve some idealistic program of returning to "Natures Balance".That no longer exists! Merry Xmas! Monashee

Get after them Mike,if I was a little healthier I'd grab the FoxPro and come up and give you a hand!A very Merry Christmas to you and yours....Monashee

Every instance where I go into a section of country where wolves have been for anytime it is a literal moon scape as far as game is concerned. No deer, rabbits, squirrels, grouse, nothing. A few chickadees perhaps. The only things they haven't killed and devoured are the trees. Reminds me of the nomadic indian tribes of yesterday, deplete the land of everything of worth then move on leaving a trail of waste. I have yet to find anything beneficial the wolf brings that isn't already being done by a less destructive predator.

I agree with both of you. I enjoyed hunting in northern AB and hearing wolves every day, but the repeat hunters from previous years seemed to be shocked that the deer numbers were down so much.

If wolves are not controlled it could get to be as bad as Idaho, but you guys really alredy know that.
Happy holidays

Yea, DF, I guess they just gave too many tags to the elk hunters in Yellowstone.

Historically speaking, what did the old-timers use?

Strychnine,and later 1080.Both will kill anything that ingests them,including coyotes,bears,wolverines,eagles etc.I understand that there are more canine specific poisons available nowdays,but I still would not be comfortable putting this s**t out in the woods.Historically in BC poison stations were set on frozen lakes so they would dilute to nothing during the spring melt,but until then they killed everything that came in to them. Monashee