Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting fire forming brasss ??

Anyone have experience with this: Any thoughts with pros and cons of this versus fire forming with actual loaded bullets?


I will start by loading about 10 grains of SR4756 or Unique into the case, and then I fill the case up to the body shoulder junction with Cream of Wheat. I will then take a large pinch of polyester filler, which can be found at any fabric supply store, or sewing department, such as at Wal-Mart. I will then take the pinch of polyester and load it into the case so that it fills up the shoulder area of the case effectively making sure that the filler is held securely over the powder for fire-forming. During the fire-forming, I like to dry brush with a nylon bore brush every 10 to 15 rounds. This removes any loose debris from filler that has accumulated. [Editors Note: Do NOT seat a bullet using this "Cream of Wheat" method. You can cap the case with a bit of wax to keep everything in place. However, Bob finds the wax is not necessary if the polyester filler is placed securely.]

Lots of guys do that, pros are you're not burning barrel life, cons are that stuff (cream of Wheat) is messy and gets everywhere.

i prefer to actually shoot.... trigger time builds confidence...

The other day I did some fire forming for my new .257SLR. I settled on 8.5 grains of 700X. I filled the rest of the case with cream o wheat and held the rifle straight up.

Other times I have loaded the ammo with a bullet and gone shootng. In my .375-.416 Rem Mag I have just fired some factory loads through it.

Many many years ago I read in a magazine that you could use cream o wheat for a filler. I included the weight of the cream o wheat with the weight of the bullet. I load the amount of powder for that weight and fired. It bulged the barrel. The case came out .017" larger than when it went in.

The gun smith told me the action was still O.K. so I rebarreled it and still use the rifle now.

You can't beat shooting bullets. Save the cream of wheats for breakfast.

Done it both ways - back to just shooting.

I fireformed with Cream of Wheat for my 400 Whelen because I didn't have dies yet for it. I used a 41 mag die to neck size once I go the initial fireforming done. I was impressed with how well they filled out making the jump from 30 caliber to .411.

Components in .411 are not cheap unless one is shooting cast so the COW method saves a considerable amount. Here is a link to my write up on the 400.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/5474216/6

Mart

Thinking if one can afford to build a 400 Whelen that they likely ain't worried about fire forming [bleep] with components.

Besides, you are now ONE step closer to zeroing in on your load, not missing a breakfast.

A 400 Whelen ain't like a 223, you likely don't need 500 formed case for a prairie dog hunt.

Like most of the fire members I am just a working stiff. I saved up and built this rifle or should say am building this rifle a step at a time. I bought the rifle for the action, saved for a while and got the barrel, the custom dies, loading components, etc. I traded out some woodworking with a gunsmith friend for the barreling and am saving to get the front sight and barrel band installed and have it blued. I shopped around and found a deal on nice pre-inlet stock but will have to do the stock work myself. At $50+ for a box of jacketed bullets, I am pretty careful about how I spend them. I would rather do my load development in a fully formed case. I don't suppose that matters all that much but it puts my mind at ease that the case forming is out of the equation for the load development.

No, I don't need 500 of them but it takes very little time to run through 20-30 of them, charged with COW, at the end of a range session. I was going to clean the rifle any way and now I have a few more cases made up.

With a next year's sheep season on the horizon, I could probably stand to miss a breakfast or two.

Put me in the "camp of burnt powder"....

42 grains of R15 with 160 NAB is my FF load for my new 280 AI. Compliments of a friend here on the fire...

I created a batch of 7.5x55's by fire-forming some .284 Win brass. I used a small amount of Unique under some instant oatmeal. And for a plug, I jammed the open case mouth into a block of parafin. Worked great!

I'm with Paul. I've tried it both ways, and for starters the COW method is a complete and total PITA to do. Also, the odds of most folks actually shooting a hunting rifle enough times to "shoot out" the barrel, are slim to none. Even if you do, barrels are cheap in the grand scheme of things. May as well use it to narrow your hand load recipe, and get some quality trigger time/field position practice.

I also feel that you wind up with a better formed case by loading the bullet so that it's jammed into the lands, and lessen the chance of case stretch/head separation.

Jeff

"barrels are cheap in the grand scheme of things."

Lots of things aer cheap in the grand scheme of things. But for the guy who has to save several months to get a new barrel they are not cheap. One of my wildcts was many months in comingto gether because I was so poor. Some folks forget that most folks go though some hard times at onetime or another. Been there done that.

I thank the Lord I can afford to play pretty easily now. There was a time when I had to sell a scope to get bullets and powder to go shooting. A new barrel was out of the question.

A good headspace prevents case stretch.

If a guy is that strapped, he won't be dumping 500-1000+ rounds per year down range, and you would have to keep that pace up for some time, to have a meaningful effect on a hunting rifle. I maintain that fire forming via bullets has no down side, that I can fathom. Don't sweat the barrel. If you can afford to shoot enough to wear one out, you can afford to replace it.

Jeff

Jeff,

I've no argument that the barrel is cheap in the grand scheme of things and I have no worries about wearing one out. The components, dies, labor and accessories add up to way more than the barrel. I fire form the 400 brass because it is an improved design and most of the loads end up being compressed or very nearly compressed. I want to take advantage of the formed capacity before I start my load development. Taking the 30-06 case up from 30 to 411 takes two separate steps with expander dies, one step with the 35 Whelen brass. After that you still have a case that is short of it's designed capacity. With the COW it goes pretty quickly, charge with 16 grains of Bullseye, add the COW, jam a crayon in the neck of the 30-06 case and with one touch of the trigger it comes out fully formed.

From there I am working with a case that will allows a full charge of my selected powders and it removes any doubt in my mind that the case forming step might be a variable in the load development.

I can see where it makes sense to case form with components when going to an AI in the same or close caliber but the 400 is a radical change from the 30-06 or even from the 35 Whelen. I also loose fewer cases with the COW than I do with the expander dies. I am annealing prior to forming regardless of the method.

I don't think either way is wrong. I do think there are some applications where one is better suited for the job at hand. In the case of the 400 Whelen I believe the COW is a better option. IMHO.

Mart

Fair enough Mart. I need to learn to never say never! I do wonder if starting with .35 Whelen brass would be an easier transition to .411? I definitely see your point when making a big jump like .308" to .411".

Jeff

Jeff,

I still seem to lose more to the expander even with the 35 Whelen brass. One of these days I will get some brand new brass to try. Perhaps it will give me less casualties.

Mart

akjeff,

When one sells his toys to buy bullets, powders and primers he can still wear out a barrel. How do I know? I did it. Now I can easily replace a barrel, but sometimes I just buy a whole new rilfe.

Here we go with the old "trigger time" vs COW method.

I have owned two wildcats....one a blown out H&H case necked to 35,and a 7mm Mashburn.I have used both methods to form cases,and they both "work".I get lots of trigger time with lots of rifles so I don't worry about that with the Mashburn.

But for hunting, I want brass as "new" as possible that has not been fired with a high pressure load. Brass loses its' elasticity,stretch factor,whatever you call it,with each firing,and I want the stuff new and trouble free with a max hunting load.

So, with the Mashburn,I use a FF load with RCBS untreated corn husk media and Bullseye,and large pistol primers....it ain't messy,and doesn't go liquid;cleans up with a pass of the brass brush every 10 rounds.

A couple hours at the range and you have 50-100 rounds of like new brass for important hunts.No last minute scrambling for brass if a hunt pops up last minute which is how I roll sometimes.

You can live fire at leisure if you want,but 50 rounds of live fire through a Mashburn in an afternoon to get brass is pretty stupid if you ask me.

I'm with you Bob, I'm all for anything that promotes less shooting. I can only hope we get to the point that no one ever has to shoot.