Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns 1911's generally speaking...

I knew I would catch heat for saying it, but I'm going by what I read here and what I hear in real life. I like it that Kimber makes their stuff here, but they are high-dollar, relatively, and I just hear time after time after time of them having to be sent back to the factory, or worked on locally, in order to function. Sorry.

My only 1911 is a Taurus which I purchased last year. It has nearly a thousnd rounds through it and runs reliably as well as shoots accurately. I did have feeding problems when I first started loading for it - I was running the reincarnation of the flying ashtray. Ball has never givien me problems - lead or jacketed - and XTPs seem to feed well. Your 1911 my vary, I don't think we can speak generally about the 1911.

You nailed it. Apples and oranges otherwise.

Probably true that because of tight tolerances leaving the factory the Kimbers do leave a little too tight sometimes. No big deal for me as I test fire and polish and break in before I trust a gun for daily carry and once done a Kimber is reliable and scary accurate. Also they were among the first with all of the goodies on them that most of us spent a lot of time and money adding to 1911's in the Pre Kimber days. Other manufactures have followed suit which is a VERY good thing, IMO.

RE, RJM: "Only Walther makes a P7"
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I have a Walther P5 and thought 'that' was the last development in the Walther P38 Series ... P1, P4, & P5.

Did you perhaps mean, a 'Heckler & Koch' P7 ?

Add to that, the fact that there are a myriad of aftermarket parts and magazines for the 1911. Of the magazines, there are several different designs - some performing better with certain kinds of ammo and 1911s tuned in a certain way.

It pays to learn the details of the design - whereas with a Glock or an XD, you just buy it and use it without any need to understand it.

Was thinking two things at once...was supposed to be P38 not P7... H&K makes the P7...

...asleep at the wheel again....Bob

No, both times.
First of all, the "poly pistols" have only been around for a few years, whereas the 1911's have been around for 100 yrs. Heck, I've shot them for over 50 yrs. myself.
As was pointed out, 1911's have been made by lots of people. That counts as well. But it also means that there are so many out there that their numbers alone will increase the chance of problems.
You also need to keep in mind that most auto pistol problems are either magazine problems or ammo problems. I've handloaded for various 1911's for over 45 yrs. Some of the older guns, like my Series 70 Colt, wouldn't handle SWC lead reloaded ammo or even some HP ammo until I had the barrel hard chromed. Now it shoots almost everything. "Almost" means it won't shoot 100% with handloads using older, used brass. What happens is the extractor rims and especially the case mouthes get beat up and don't chamber or eject well. Use new or no more than twice fired brass and it runs 100%, even with my lead, SWC, light handloads.
Speaking of brass problems, I had a lot of Wichester 10mm stuff that started giving me FTF problems after loading some of it five times or more. Turned out it was shorter than minimum. Kind of surprised that it worked as long as it did.
Start dropping magazines while doing combat shooting drills and sooner or later they need to be replaced.
I've also found out the hard way that my old colt would give me fits because I insisted for years on dropping the slide on a chambered round. This eventually tweaked the extractor to the point where it needed replacing. Some auto pistols, BTW, get their extractors broken with this treatment.
BTW, a really accurate pistol and a really reliable one are not a mutually exclusive choice. I've got a Kimber 1911 and a Smith 1006 that shoot 1.5 inch or less groups at 25 yds and never have problems provided the ammo is assembled using new or near new brass. E

Great info, I appreciate it.

Long

I will point folks to the following thread:

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=252140&highlight=survey

363 people responded to this survey, and over 3000 guns sampled as to the question, "did it malfunction in the first 300 rounds?". Granted, some will argue the survey is unscientific, but the volume of data makes it worthwhile for spotting trends.

To briefly summarize, if you take the best of the guns with significant representation, Les Baer, Wilson, Glock, Sig, and Beretta, they are all in the 10-15% range for malfunctions. Colt is at 17%, which actually beat Nighthawks and Ed Browns (much smaller sample of the latter two brands). So buying a Glock or Sig does not make you immune to malfunctions

At last count, I have owned 21 1911's, and the survey mirrors my experiences with them.

I have owned two different Kimbers, my first was the basic custom classic and the newest is the Raptor. I started shooting IDPA with my Custom Classic over eight years ago and have put over 2000rds through it and only had one FTF. I will admit that the whole time I was shooting ball ammo so I cannot speak to using Hollow-point. I have practiced with hollow-point and had no issues. I like 1911�s for the ease of which you can upgrade and work on them to make them more reliable. I guess if you know what you are doing that can be said of almost any type of weapon.

most of all people i've EVER experienced having problems with 1911s fall into 4 catagories:

*those that forget the original design was built for .45 acp hardball, NOT the flying ashtray type of hollowpoint. the feed ramp in its original design is great for rounds closing matching or duplicating the profile of FMJ roundnose .45acp ammo.

*those that handload and don't put the right crimp on the bullet.

*those that have to tinker with something regardless of how well it came out of the box. "tuned" 1911s become pretty finicky if tuned too well.

*those that believe wonder 9s and other poly-pistols are perfect in every way and that the 1911 is the single most unreliable inaccurate piece of stone age crap ever built, no matter how you show them they're wrong.

now, that's not to take away from the poly pistols out now. they're pretty well done these days. but gaston glock, even in his prime, no matter how he wants to see himself, is *not* john moses browning.

for the record, i've owned several from several different manufacturers. the only times i've personally ever had a problem, they were all ammo related, and that ammo performed equally as poorly in other models. changing the stock mags to higher quality like kimber and wilson solves most all 1911 problems.

great design, and it's been essentially unchaged for over a century now. know any other designs with that track record? (besides other JMB designs, mind you.)

Most mechanical malfunctions with a 1911 are due to crappy magazines, occasionally you'll have an extractor issue. You do have to clean them every now an then.

I cut my teeth on 1911's, so I'm very biased as I hate pistols with [bleep] triggers and no path to better accuracy if it's desired.

I don't much give a schit about 1911's but I came VERY close to leaving the store with a SIG yesterday.

Beautiful grips, N/S front, Novak adjustable rear, didn't have that GD ambi safety and was just all around purrrty.


Travis

Have had a Norinco, a Charles Daly, and a Springfield mil-spec. Still have the Sprinfield, wish I still had the Norinco. The only time I've had any trouble was once when I tried Hornady XTP's and ended up with feed failure on about every third round; as our friend Recon Jim points out they seem to work best with roundnose bullets.

I love my Glocks but there just ain't anything quite like a 1911.

Looked like Colt was 17% malfunction out of the box and Kimber was 44%, Glock was 10%. No surprises here.

I have one of those norinco's among a bunch of other 1911's. I have taken great pleasure shooting the norinco against some others gold cups and waxing them. John Moses meant the 1911 to be a combat gun, not a target shooter. It was also made for ball ammo. With the wide variety in bullets today, and tightening them up for accuracy, you can get into issues deviating from what they were originally intended to do. Last year i took out a few: A 2000dollar tricked out series 70 gold cup, the norinco, a series 70 mark IV, and a WWII remington rand pretty much stock with the exception of some target sights. Ran the same ammo through all of them. Lets see, 2000 bucks vs. about 240 when i bought the norinco. Guess what? They all punched nice round holes in paper at ten yards. I have shot thousands of the hensley and gibbs No68 200 grain swc. Some just don't like it. but they all get along with a 230grain round ball which is what they were originally designed for. I am also coming to the conclusion that money is wasted to a large degree in those real expensive 1911's. Other than bragging rights most people can't shoot them well enough anyway

+1. Same, except no FTF issues from type of round. I reload ball or XTPs though.. so I may just be lucky avoiding issues with other HPs. I did have an ammo atrributed FTF: incorrect seating depth. No issues prior, nor any since i adjusted the depth.

So $300 bought my entry into the 1911 arena: a Taurus PT1911.

The 1911 was designed for controlled-feed based on the location of the ogive. The shape of the bullet tip, round, flat, or otherwise, has little to do with reliable operation unless it the shape affects the location of the ogive.

With the exception of magazine release timing, little has changed in 1911 design to feed hollow-points. What has changed is ammo manufacturers locating the ogive where it's supposed to be.

That's a great price on your Taurus. Congrats.