Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Inline ML

So I went to the local sports shop and checked out what they had in stock, which wasn't much....LOL. They had a T/C Bone Collector, Optima, and Encore, as well as a Remington Genesis.

I was not very impressed!

I had thought these companies actually had thought things through with their builds, but I was quickly proved wrong. T/C Bone collector had what I had thought, a great breach plug, well in actuality was a really shoty made design in my opinion! I didn't think that when I was looking at the profile on line, but after looking at it, well it went out the freakin window as fast as I saw and played with it! The breach plug was surely a 1/4 turn and pull but was tight and only went in one way, the threads didn't meet in either way the plug was inserted. So it this fashion the plug only inserted one way, (out of 2 ways) which in a miss fire and breech plug failure could prove in a nightmare as you could not get it re-loaded and breech plug installed when issues arrived, but also the breech plug could be open to the elements of bad weather and therefore foul the cap. Also, the cap is not protected because the breach plug is open because the firing pin is open so water could potentially accesses the cap causing the miss fire or bad cap . Further, I did not like the barrel brake trigger guard. What I am saying here is that you have to push out the top of the trigger guard (backward) to unlock the barrel to break the action. Now at this point you can remove the breach plug with the 1/4 turn. Once the action is broke then you can open the breach plug of the barrel therefore completely opening the barrel for cleaning. Now after cleaning the breach plug is installed (the correct way) and can it go back together! Now you lock the action once you get the breach plug in correctly, but wait! Here you have to push the trigger guard back reverse into the receiver, and this is what locks the action! Yea a crapy snap clasp! Yet unless the barrel is ready into position and the breach plug is in correctly it can't close, but if you get it right, then you have to push the trigger guard back into position and push in on it to clasp and lock it back to position! This set up was a very crappy design in my opinion! The Encore also had this overall design.

I then looked at the Omega, which was a non-break action design. which quickly broke my attention, not to mention it wasn't stainless and the design again didn't hit what I wanted.

Now the Remington Genesis,

I was very happy with this gun as far a feel. This thing felt like a glove and the trigger felt even better. It had a Stainless barrel with a Thumb Hole Gray Wolf stock. However there was a few things that bothered me? The firing pin was integrated in a 1/4 turn symmetric disk. You turned this sphere disk, about 1/2 inch overall thickness, out 1/4 turn left and then you could access the breach plug, however with a "special tool", making it hard in the field! After the turn over then you could break the barrel. Looking down the barrel it looks like a VERY nice bore! A 1-28 twist with a 28" barrel that was fluted, sure to enlighten the senses. However, with this design makes it very hard to break in the field....IMHO. Not only that, the cap is again open to the elements because the cap sits in the breach plug and that is held into the action only by the spherical disk and the breach plug. There is a an open crack that allows weather into the cap. So with this design, ....IMHO.... makes this an unreliable fire arm and make it very hard to break in the field!

With this said I am continuing my look for the design in which I want. I want a break action, easy removable breach plug (no tools), stainless, sealed 209 ignition cap, in-line, Thumbhole Laminate stock, 26"-28" barrel, .50 CAL, around 28 twist, tapped for a scope. This list is subjected to change.....LOL


Anyway, can't wait for a trip to a Cabelas or something more then what the locals have around, ya know. I am really awaiting some new "2012" designs if any. Just though I'd post the negatives I saw today....IMHO

Checkout anything by traditions. They area solid simple design. They don't advertise as much as the others and are not as well known but they are quality product at a fair price. The vortex ultralight has been tempting me. The link hits all your points except the laminate stock.

Vortek

Regarding the Bone Collector. While you might not like the way the barrel locks it not only isn't crappy but makes for a very tight fit when you have a primer seated in that 'crappy" breech plug.
This makes the breech plug design very impervious to the elements.
As to the way the breech plugs installs there is only one way for it to go in and if you familiarize yourself with it the slightest it is very easy.

CVA is coming out with a new ACCURA V3 MOUNTAIN RIFLE. It is and Accura with Apex stock and a shorter 25 inch barrel. Im getting one of those next year. It seems to be perfect and everyone loves their new breech plug.

Hydra, it sounds like your very unfamiliar with modern muzzle loaders.i can tell you as i am sure others will also,that once these modern break action and drop action (Omega/Kodiak) rifles are closed with a primer inserted, there virtually water tight.the T/C speed breech plug works flawlessly, as does the CVA quick release BP.it sounds like you may have a center fire back ground.if that's the case, you may want to have a look at Knight bolt action M/L rifles.i happen to own a break action,drop action and old style plunger rifle that uses a red disc and wouldn't hesitate to hunt with any of them in foul weather.

I wouldn't waste my money on any other Inline today other than the Encore or Omega.

Well I was drunk last night so bare with me....LOL


Mike<--- I haven't seen the Traditions n person yet. I have to drive down to Cabelas. I was just there on New Years Eve but they had closed early, oh well. I don't like the dual safety however....LOL

FVA<--- I really doesn't appear that the breech plug was any better at locking out any moisture then the Remington....IMHO. Besides that, it doesn't come in Stainless either. What I looked at was the Blued style version. With that said I was not impressed. I probably would not have written this but that brake and clasp thing is just a plain shoty design....IMHO. Now if it was more like a center fire and when you close the barrel to the receiver it re-locked then I would have had better things to say. But to have to hold the barrel into place then clasp the trigger gaurd, well that is just a crappy design....IMHO.

Nuguy<--- Thanks for that information! Do you know when they are coming out to the stores?

builder<--- Yes you are completely right. I am looking for my first In-line, and so far I don't like what I see. I don't care about the cash anymore, I know what I want I just got to find it. I really am interested in the Knight. The other thing I am concerting getting is a White. I've shot a lot of traditional style ML's when I was a kid, so the inline is new to me. Does the bolt remove for easy cleaning like a center fire?


I just really wish I could have them all lined up in a row and pick it out as to my liking and observe all of the options. There is just WAY too many out there. I plan on hitting all the Pawn shops and gun stores I can to look at as many as I can. I don't mind buying used, besides I also need a cheep one for my boy / back up.

Yes the bolt can be removed and for those who want a bolt style muzzle loader. Knight rifles are the answer. if you liked the old "White" style plunger rifles, knight still makes them also. whites were well made, but you no longer can find parts for them.i am a center fire model 70 fan myself and i can tell you i am 100 % satisfied with my T/C Triumph (BA), kodiak (DA) and my knight wolverine(plunger Action)rifles.the extra weight of the Knight bolts doesn't appeal to me, although they are top quality rifles, with adjustable triggers,Green mountain barrels and top notch stocks..

My advice would be to do some research and get comfortable with the idea of muzzleloading before buying one. They are basically a pipe bomb waiting to happen and if you don't know whats going on, thats exactly what will happen. Im not trying to be rude or anything but i just get that feeling that you need some more time to learn this new game.

Check these videos out: http://www.cva.com/videos.php

I think the bolt action muzzy would be the worse muzzy to start out with due to all the extra parts that need cleaning.

Hydrashocker, a White is a very worthwhile rifle and of simple design but it will not meet your criteria. I suggest you alter your criteria and get a White anyway (as one becomes available).

I also suggest an Accura V2 or a CVA Apex. Since you are primarily looking for a muzzleloader only - the Accura V2 would be a great choice. You could expect great accuracy and an exceptional trigger as well as ease of use and cleaning. The 209 is not really exposed but is also not completely waterproof - is there such a rifle (maybe the Savage)?

Jon, this thread made me stop and think about owning 3 different brands with 3 different style actions lol.and one is a CVA to boot!!

The dual safety on the traditions is not an issue. You only need to push off the crossbolt safety on the trigger to shoot. The second safety is a passive safety that disengages as the trigger is pulled. Similar to a transfer bar on a revolver. If the hammer were to drop without a trigger pull the gun would not fire. I am sure any exposed hammer inlines have a similar system whether they advertise it or not.

Big<--- I am trying to do my homework, and that is why I have been on the look out for what will work, price range, and posting here over and over. You guys always come back with great advise.

I was able to shoot a White and I loved the gun, however with the gun out of production, well parts are a no go as stated. Having the option of swapping barrels to a 338 cal or 300 cal would be nice, but I already have a 7mm that is built for the long range, just would be nice to have both ya know.

But I wanted to post up the things I didn't like of the guns I saw and played with so as to help me find the "One" for me.

The primer is seated in the breech plug and held tightly in place by the closed action. Locking the action with a primer in place is harder than without. It also varies with make of primer. A good thing as that shows a tight , weather proof head space in part due to the camming action of the system.
Water isn't going to get to the business end of the primer. I'm thinking you could set the butt in a bucket of water pass the breech plug and not have issues. Might even give that a try.
As to the action closing design even with a break action center fire rifle you use two hands, one on the fore arm and one on the butt stock grip to close. You just add a pulling motion with your index and middle finger to lock the action.
You open your own jars and such?

I could describe the perils of holding a bolt action with the bolt open, with one hand, to be able to load cartridges with the other. but from experience i know how natural and easy that really is.

Push opening the action with the bottom webb area of your thumb after firing is easy, fast, and second nature if you put any time in shooting.

You carry so much paraphernalia with you muzzle loading that with guns that use a tool that is nothing to throw in the tool in the bag. Not a issue with the BC but hardly a issue at all if the gun has a good breech plug as to keeping blow back to a minimum.
Sometimes even the finger removable breech plugs at times need a little initial persuasion after a bunch of shooting.

I have no issue with you not liking the action or rifle. That it is not stainless is true, something I hope bore coat helps alleviate the issue of.
I bought mine out of a line up that did have all of the players from TC,Traditions, and CVA without knowing the merits vs. the others.
What drew me was the light weight, solid feel/ construction, the stock proportions and how it carried in the hand.
It is accurate and the recoil reducing abilities of the energy bars and sims recoil pad combo make for a soft shooter considering the weight.
But there are a lot of great guns out there.

FVA<--- You make a valid point on the primer, if you use the right one. However I chose not to lose a prime specimen on a "if you use the right primer attitude", not to mention you have to use the right load and primer for the gun in which you like. So it's not like I'm going to tell this gun you will fire this load, this "special" primer so as it can be water tight, and this bullet. The fact of the matter is, each ML fires the load each fire arm likes, not what you feel should be adequate for the weather conditions. It only take one bullet, but if you are ill-equipped then why even go? I've lost Boone & Crockett bucks because of issues like that, and I chose not to let another go.

I'm not going to spend $600 bucks on a gun just to dip it into a barrel of water sideways just to see if the primer becomes wet! The simple idea of that just doesn't sit easy with me. However since you have one already please feel free to give it a try and post up your results?

I'm glad you had many ML rifles sitting out in front of you in a line and you chose the rifle for you, and the one to fit you, in fact I even stated I wish I could do the same. Fact of the matter I don't have that option right now and even posted that?

The thing is, I don't like the action in one little iota, the fact of how it was designed make me cringe, but I'm glad you like it. I have a different opinion.

The only problem I have with your opinions is you make up so much that isn't so and seem pretty proud of your opinions considering the obvious lack of aptitude.
Your not liking the gun is fine. Your first paragraph above the stuff of fairy tails.

I've only had to deal with rain a few times, but this year sat out in the rain all day with my Thompson Thunderhawk (exposed #11 cap).

Only removed the cap after the hunt. 3 days later it went boom just fine.

I been reading this thread from when you posted it .
Personally I see no benefits in the modern rifles . But that�s up to the person looking for a rifle .
If I was looking for such a gun though , I sure would be listening to the fellas here that know about them . Most certainly that doesn�t mean giving up your own desires .
But if you don�t understand muzzle loading then its probably going to mean modifying those desires when they are un realistic .

For instance


All kinds of complications I this statement
First your looking at basically a 30 cal barrel. Im not sure such an interchangeable barrel is available even for the modern rifles . Most I have read about are 45 cal or better . But again the modern shooters here would know far better then I would .

But lets say that you could get an interchangeable system bored to 30 cal that would fit one of the production guns that�s built for a 45 cal .

Have you taken the time to look at the state regulations your planning on using the gun in ? see while your desire maybe for that smaller barrel , you just may find that caliber not legal for muzzle loading in the state you intend to hunt in . same thing goes for the actions . You simply can run into a case where one type of action or primer isn�t legal

So again , while I know ZIP when it comes to these modern guns , It seems to me that the advise that�s been given by the other posters here , is frankly very sound .
While it may seem blunt , I would have to agree that your needing more research into the subject before you can make an educated assessment as to what�s available before even thinking about what your preferences are .

Again while some of their comments and probably mine , may seem blunt . What they are trying to do is give you information . Its your choices as to taking it or not .

Lastly . If you think a muzzle loading gun is somehow going to keep that B&C class buck from trotting over the ridge . Your probably going to be happiest staying with a center fire .

Captchee, I think he meant a centerfire barrel in .300 or .338. The Apex has an available .300 Winchester magnum barrel - would need the barrel and forearm for same.

The Encore also has a .300 Win mag as well as a .375 H&H barel available. There is also huge aftermarket support for the Encore so far as barrels and stocks -

- but I still prefer the Apex as the better buy right out of the box. I've owned a few Encores and now two Apex rifles (but no centerfire barrels for either make).

And let me add that I would still recommend the CVA Accura V2 with QRBP and an additional Blackhorn 209 QRBP for your first muzzleloader. The Accura design does allow for some head space alteration such that the 209 is lightly forced into position when the action is closed, making for an effective seal.

One more comment - Hydrashocker, I cannot believe your assessment of the Genesis trigger. I owned two of the Genesis rifles and frankly I've seen better triggers on kid's cap guns. It could be you handled an exceptional piece or that mine were exceptions in the opposite direction - but I doubt it. The Genesis is no longer made and any support would need be had through Traditions.

so he isnt looking for a dedicated muzzleloading rifle but instead a rifle that has an enterchangable barrel system from centerfire to muzzleloader ?