Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers Hornady FTX 45-70 brass

I have 2-3 boxes of the brass (about 50 pieces). Because the brass is shorter than standard I'm not going to reload it. (didn't realize until I tried to reload it) If anyone wants it for reloading it is yours for the cost of shipping. Please only take this if you are going to use it. Not sure what shipping would be, maybe $10? I'm in San Antonio.

Out of curiosity, what is the OAL of the shortest case you have? Unless they are exceptionally shorter than 2.1" (say, 2.04" or less) they can still be reloaded. If you crimp (as you would for a lever gun), it will just be a touch lower on the bullet.

If I'm wrong, I hope someone here will be chime in. I apologize in advance if I am mistaken . . .

I wouldn't get rid of it..From a good friend on Hornady brass who knows his chit!!!!



1) When dealing with cases of different lengths, you need to compare water capacity when seating the same bullet to the same OAL.

2) Comparing water capacities of different cases when fired at unknown pressures is apples and oranges. Virtually all 45-70 chambers are considerably oversized compared with other modern cartridges and it takes max pressures to fill out a 45-70 case to the chamber dimension. If comparing cases fired a different pressures, you will run into errors in capacity. To alleviate that discrepancy, due to variations of pressure, the cases being compared should be full length sized (don't forget to remove the primer ejector pin ). In that way the outside dimensions are identical and therefore you are now only comparing the inside capacity.

Unfired LR cases measure 2.034". I haven't figured out why but they shorten on firing, going to ~2.026". Upon full-length sizing, they again return to ~2.035".

Factory LR rounds average just over 2.585".

Fired and sized factory LR rounds have a water capacity of 77.8 grains.

Fired and sized Winchester cases have a water capacity of 79.8 grains. Obviously, being longer, they hold more water.

Now we need to compare those two water capacities if the same LR bullet (or any bullet for that matter) were seated TO THE SAME OAL.

Since the Winchester case is .060" longer, when trimmed, than the LR case, we can now calculate the difference in volume.

With a difference in seating depth of .060" a .458 bullet will have a difference in room of .009885 cubic inches. That converts .16198 cubic centimeters. Until you get past the fifth decimal, cubic centimeters equal grams. .16198 grams equals 2.50 grains. So, if you seated the bullet .060 deeper into the Winchester case, to achieve the same OAL as the Hor LR case, you would take up another 2.5 grains of water capacity. That would reduce the Winchester capacity to 77.3 grains (79.8- 2.5). Just so there is no confusion, this is the full water capacity not the water capacity with the bullet seated. Basically, the 77.3 would be the Win capacity if it were trimmed to the same 2.035" length.

In other words, if both cases (Win and Hor) have a bullet seated to the same OAL, the Hornady case actually has a half-grain greater water capacity than the Winchester case.

As far as what to do with the empties, trade them to someone that loads Speer 350s. That should work out perfect for crimping that bullet. Might even work well with the dreaded Rem 405. Or...just shoot the dang things. Load to the same OAL and quit worrying about it. The bullet doesn’t give a flying rat's rear how long the case is, only the capacity under it. Basically there is no significant difference in capacity between the Hornady and Winchester cases.

The only negative in using the shorter brass is the same as any short brass; make sure you clean the chamber before you use longer, standard brass. Otherwise, at the very top of the pressure range, you could have problems with the residue left behind from the shorter case. Nothing new for anyone that shoots 44 special in a 44 Mag or a 38 in a 357.

Jayco

Wow, thank you for the detailed explanation. In the end I decided to give the brass away anyway. I could reload them, but I won't, and they will be sitting on the shelf in two years. Might as well clear the space for something else and send them to someone who will use them.

Wookie,

First, welcome to the 'Fire!

Second, have you gotten rid of the brass yet? If not. I'm interested.

Ed

Thanks Ed. They have been claimed.

They can be reloaded. Regular dies just won't be able to crimp the shorter case. One could get a custom Lee Factory Crimp die for around $27, IIRC, set up for that specific case. Or, one could grind off material from the bottom of a regular die and make the crimping operation work.

DF

I ran into the same situation... Except I ended up wrecking new brass by trimming to recommended Hornady length for the FTX. Couldn't get a crimp.. So, just single loaded them for plinking. I was lucky,tho, I just keep 'em set aside for the hogglegg.. 45-70 BFR.. I'm gonna shoot a Bison with that beast some day,, I call her my Bitch Slap Prom Queen, she sure is purty..

Grinding some off the bottom of the crimp die won't hurt it as you can still set it to work with the std. length cases. IMHO, the Lee Factory Crimp die is great and I'd get one custom made for the shorter FTX case and not mess with the other die. Your problem would be solved and you could load without any handicap whatsoever.

DF