Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Factory ammo

I'm starting to get into reloading currently, with the great help from these forums,

and there seems to be no end to all this stuff you need to have or know,

Full length dies, neck dies, collet dies, headspace gauge, back off the lands .05 or so, OAL, Ogive tool, calipers to find the ogive, cold/warm weather powders,go-go, no-go gauge,etc etc etc....

GAWD MY HEAD HURTS !!!

Here's my point, How can I go buy factory ammo and have it chamber and shoot in every single rifle available to the public, and said ammo will usually shoot 1 inch or maybe even 1 1/4" groups. Did you ever hear from anyone who bought factory ammo and it wouldn't chamber?

But every day on here I read about rounds that won't chamber And then there's that so-called crush fit?

The mass produced ammo company's don't have a clue where my lands are, matter of fact I don't either,

They know nothing about my rifles ogive or twist of barrel,

They dont know IF I need cold weather powder or such,

Is reloading the pinnacle of Loonyism?

Usually once I relax and take a deep breath I can explain to my self that factory ammo is a very generic fit and form thing and that's the whole basis of reloading,finding the closest to perfect powder,case dimension and other components which makes the magic happen.

It just seems demented that factory ammo could ever hit the side of a barn,as generically as they crank it out, but it does.

How can Federal make a box of Premium '06 165 grain TSX that shoots 3/4 inch groups from my Winchester,and they know absolutely nothing about my gun. They must truly have it going on......

I need a beer, my head hurts again.....

go to the gun store and have them show you a Lee Loader. THAT'S all you really need to reload ammo. The rest of the stuff is whistles and bells.
It's very easy to reload ammo that will fit any factory chamber but that really isn't what reloading is all about. It's more about custom fitting ammo to YOUR rifle to optimize the rifle's potential. I do agree that some do seem to get too involved with the aesoterics of reloading but that's just me. Some folks reload to shoot and some shoot to reload.
Often where you hear folks having problems, they've tried to short cut the learning curve. Perhaps not having a mentor, they come into cyberspace and try to feel their way thru an exacting process by asking questions without having done the basic research or reading needed. And others are just sharing learning experiences they have had.
It's be a pretty boring forum if the only post were" "I ran up 4 boxes of ammo yesterday without a hitch".

I haven't reloaded in 30 ought years. Gave everything away to the kids. Still kill stuff. Not all, but some factory ammo has come a looooong way.

That said, I have a NIB RCBS RC Supreme Master Reloading kit with a Redding Deluxe Die Set for the .257 Roberts setting here on the floor. Haven't opened it yet, just keep walking around it hoping I'll come to my senses.

"Is reloading the pinnacle of Loonyism?"

No, but a lot of what I read from 'web experts' would seem to make it a close race with what ever is at the peak. I read an awful lot about "precision reloading" from people who clearly don't understand how much precision has meaning nor how to obtain a good shooting load. As you correctly observe, most factory ammo does quite well in virtually anything it's fired from and NONE of it is loaded with precision calipers at the ogive, neck dies, turned necks, powder weighted within .00001 grain, etc.

FL die set is all you need to reload. Well......you also need the press, scale, etc. FL resized cases will fit in all guns chambered for that round and your FL resized rounds will be better than most factory rounds not to mention much cheaper in the long run.

After the first firing in your chamber, back the die off ths shellholder a smidge and just size the neck (yes......with a FL die set). You may find you get better accuracy that way.

You can start out loading to the cartridge's recommended COL and start playing with that later if you want or need better accuracy.

Best advice is not to let it get too complicated when you're starting out. Keep it simple and you'll still get good results.

Yes.



It isn't random. There's some research that goes into finding what works well for a given cartridge in most instances, and good manufacturers do it. As handloaders we are reminded that "rifles are individuals", but some folks go too far preaching that idea. There's a lot of good precedent available for loading most cartridges, and in the absence of pathology it works well.

For example, suppose you have a rifle chambered in 308 Win. and there's nothing wrong with it. Never having seen your rifle, I can assemble some ammo for it that will be safe and almost certainly accurate. Something to the tune of 3/4 MOA three shot groups for a standard sporter, and near 1/2 MOA five shot groups for a heavier rifle.

When I started reloading, I reloaded for cost savings and still do. I am just using up the last of some BLC-2 type powder that I reloaded every rifle round I could at the time.
Got a deal on some H414/W760 type propellant and am just about out of that also. Recently developed a great load for my 30-30's using LeverEvolution propellant. Am now doing some load testing with Ramshot Big Game and Hunter, along with some H4831sc. Kinda daring for me, as I don't buy "new" fangled stuff as a rule. I've enjoyed the load development and it gave me a little challenge.

I found for me that if I wasn't always looking for the top velocity available I could load some accurate ammo that was ok for practise and also ok for hunting.

If you full length resize and use a reasonable load, accurate ammo is not that difficult to load and is easy on the case, the rifle, and your shoulder.

That is an understatement, most people have no idea how much testing goes into developing one load, thousands of rounds and many different makes, configurations, of guns, are tested. All to get a load that will shoot consistently good in most rifles. After all the testing is done you end up with a load that will shoot at least MOA in most rifles, while the load may not be the best for an individual rifle, it is the best for a group of rifles.

It is not like they just slop together some components and hope for the best. The amount of time a handloader has to spend to get a round is only a fraction of what is spent by the manufactures.

Its also called a Hobbey!! I could watch stupid TV now but would rather reload, custom my loads with the bullet I want, FPS at the muzzle, OACL. At first you could save some money by just buying factory ammo on sale, especially if you have a real common caliber. But as you aquire more rifles and shoot more it becomes cheaper to reload.
Yes for what we hunt, all we need is 1 maybe 2 rifles and 3 boxes of shells a year for each. A few for practice and checking the sites and a few for the hunt. Then watch NASCAR all winter.

You lost me at the NASCAR part.....

Going for a fish fry tomorrow nite Bob?

It sounds as though you've been reading too much of some of the quasiexperts opinions on reloading. Much of the esoterica of reloading will only yield benifits in benchrest rifles, you'll never see any difference in a hunting rifle. I have been reloading since the early 1970's, factory ammo has come a long way in that time. I sighted my .257 Roberts in with Hornady Light Magnum ammo this fall, the result was groups the size I would expect from a well developed handload. I suppose the factory round that would not fit a specific rifle may exist, but feel it would be the rare exception. Factory ammo is produced to SAAMI specs which virtually guarantee fitting rifles made to that spec. As regards your "crush fit" question NEVER, I repeat NEVER force any round to chamber, doing so is gambling with the likelyhood of a KABOOM.

Like anyone who rides a hobby,some folks are anal retentive and others are more casual.(Of course, we should always be safe).

But a person can mostly get along fine simply loading and shooting a bunch of ammo, safely,and have a good time;and shoot a lot more than the factory ammo shooter.

I watch some of them factory load shooters come hunting season.They zeroed the year before with some brand of ammo,or a particular bullet, and the store is all out of it....so the scramble of what to buy begins;they jump around,buy a box of this or a box of that. I suspect the stuff will not even come close to hitting where they are aiming, or they will run out before they get zeroed,etc.Seems to me like more of a PITA than handloading with a stash of compatible components.

Got one 270 that has not seen a handload yet. It shoots Federal blue box 130's as good as I can hold to 300 yards;groups great.I bought 5 boxes before hunting season,all the same lot number,and have been shooting it.

Another lot number of the same ammo, consistently hits low and right at 300 yards from the same rifle.

This sort of thing would drive me nuts over the course of a year.In my other 270's, my handloads go the same place year round...I keep plenty of components on hand,and have run hundreds of rounds without the need to touch sights,year in and year out.

Dicking around with too much factory ammo would drive me to the loony bin.

Yes, I have also.

Factory ammo is also the only ammo I've ever had misfires with, my handloads have never failed to fire.

I handload for a lot of reasons, mostly because I enjoy it. Another big reason is to be able to use the bullets I like and avoid paying $50 a box for the loaded ammo with those bullets. I spend plenty on reloading, but sitting at a bench looking at a box of factory ammo and knowing I'm spending $2.50 every time I pull the trigger takes most of the fun out of it for me. Handloading allows me to shoot more thus staying in better practice. It's no coincidence that if someone misses a deer at my hunting camp, 9 times out of 10 it's the guys who don't handload.

I also know what I'm getting with my handloads. I once had a friend bring over his brand new 25-06 to chronograph at my place. His 120 gr. factory loads that were supposed to be doing 3000 fps were really going 2700 fps, my 257 Roberts was 100 fps faster with the same weight bullet. Another guy was sighting in his 7mm rem mag at my bench using 140 gr federal premium ammo. I had my chronograph set up and after a few shots noticed that the last couple of shots were 150 fps slower than the prior shots. I asked him if he'd changed ammo and he said he'd just opened a new box. Same 140 gr. nosler partition federal premium ammo in identical boxes, but bought at different times and had different lot numbers on the box. The difference between the two boxes was 150 fps. How's that for quality control? Most shooters would have never known the difference because they wouldn't be shooting factory ammo over a chronograph, I just happened to have mine set up that day.

The bottom line is that no matter how good people tell me that factory ammo is, I still don't trust it. They don't have a vested interest in making sure that their ammo works best in MY rifles like I do.

There it is,

My original post was a blend of tongue in cheek with a splash of sarcasm on the side.

Like anything in life, you can have simplicity, or all the way to anal-retentive.

When your first starting out on your own, and your not sure on whats necessary, there seems to be no end to what the hard-core reloaders do in their sequence of steps.

Concentricty gauges? Runount? Sectional Density? Ballistic co-efficency? 10 thousandths of an inch? dry-lube or wet lube, Neck turning, Digital or Balance?....
Now my head hurts again.....

What makes it especially difficult is the disgreements on various methods, techniques, components and equipment.

It takes a long time and lots of reading to sort through the BS. If you read enough here eventually you'll get to recognize the guys in the know and be able to filter the rest.

Good luck!

im very mean to factory ammo, i do a extensize FBI protocall test. then i add douglas fir and phone books.lol. if it dont survive that then i wont use it. ive found the only bullet that works is winchesters xp3..

That Larry Potterfield guy said it pretty good. We reload because:
1. They don't make it any more
2. Saving money
3. Obtain better accuracy
and a few others I can't remember.

Initially I got into it because of the savings. The accuracy I gain helps the confidence thus helps me be a better shooter and its relaxing.

Reloading is fun and rewarding. I don't know if I shoot to reload or reload to shoot.

I can make better ammo than I can buy, and I can tailor it to my specific gun and application.

If anybody tells you that they reload to save money, ask them how much reloading they would have to do to have enough to retire.