Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Counterfeit Winchesters

I am curious how many have seen a Winchester Faked? I have seen the model 37 faked in the 28ga. and just recently a model 70 in a very rare caliber.

The blue book states that in some of the rare calibers there are more fakes than originals. I recently came across a fake pre war 70 in a rare caliber, that had the barrel replaced.

This is one of the reasons my collector intrest in these rarer calibers is diminishing. The faked barrel was very good but they could not duplicate the stippling on the front sight. What have you seen out there?

There is a well known dealer in Winchesters (still in business) that was well known for producing almost perfect fakes of Winchester M 70 carbines in rare calibers. His gunsmith finally spilled the beans to avoid more serious charges but the dealer walked and still attends the major shows.

Of course, Doug Turnbull can build you almost any lever gun you want but he does have secret marks on them.

If it's worth money, it will be faked, especially if there are no factory records.... like the Czar Nicholas Parker. Oops, then Remington found the Parker records and......

Not sure if the guy you refer to is doing much these days? Appears someone else may have picked up where he left off though....

Once upon a time there was a very talented fellow in Michigan who was making 9mm barrels that could not be told from the original....he probably made other calibers, too....I just know about the 9mms....

The biggest danger, IMO, any collector faces is the redone guns....there are some guys out there who can do magic when it comes to restoring high dollar Winchesters, levers and bolts alike....and I'm not talking about Turnbull....the obvious redos are easy to spot-it's the guns that are done right which aren't....

When I was collecting 70s I stayed away from most NIB stuff, preferring to acquire guns that were 98-99%....my 95% .300 Savage and 99% .35 Remington were stripped down to their basic components before I shelled out the dough to buy them.....I know where there's a .35 Rem SG carbine that's as fake as fake can be....glad I don't own it....

My advice to a new collector would be to only deal with the most reputable sellers when considering the purchase of a rare rifle....AND have someone knowledgeable thoroughly examine it BEFORE its purchase....

I have seen a fake Winchester M1897 trench gun and a Colt
1911 in 38 Super in the last few years. I have heard of guys
taking pre-64 M70s in 7x57 and reboring and restamping to
9x57 but have never encountered one.

Seen a few Model 70 featherweight Supergrades that were fakes..... that is about it that i know of....

Where would they get a SG Featherweight stock to make a fake from?

I have a SG FW .30/06 that I could easily put together a SG FW .358, using the stock and other parts from the .30/06.....wonder what that would be worth?

Yep, that would be very easily done as long as the stocks cheek piece matches the serial no. range of the .358.

low comb SG FW works on the .358

Hell,if you gots the money for it,there are fake boxes available.

My guess is that it would be worth $1500-$2000 more than the 30/06 SG Featherweight. Which is also about the same as a standad featherweight in 358 would be worth more than a 30/06. So there is really no monetary advantage to swap out the stocks.

I have a SG Carbine in 257. Is there anyway to proove that it left the factory as a SG and didn't just have a SG stock added to it? Not really so I consider it to be worth about $1000 more than a standard carbine in 257 because that's what a SG stock is worth.

I think your estimate is low on a .358 SG FW although I don't know if anyone would "bite" on such a specimen with no provenance...

Again, I think the real danger lies with buying redone guns of which there are plenty....

I saw a SG Varmint a few months ago on an auction site....another make-believe rifle...

I take all super rare guns in Rule's book with several grains of salt...and that is all I will publicly say about it....

Didnt the Supergrades have SG stamped on the barrel underneath
the stock?

Rarely. They did however have a redfield brass blade front sight, but that is easily replaced.

Turning a field grade into a SG is probably the easiest way to change the originality, and unless its done with the incorrect period stock, It would be virtually undectible. And if it is all real parts and undectable, I question weather its even a "fake"?

I bought a beautiful "as new" fake 358 FW when I lived in Kansas. It was sold as fake to me and I sold it some years later as a fake when I lived in Canada. The execution was remarkable.

That's sad because eventually someone is going to sell it as "not fake" and someone will get taken to the cleaners.......Because of this BS, I steer clear of the highly desireable (collectable) ones.

Yep, Counterfeit M70 barrels in rare calibers are the problem. I have not seen a fake supergrade stock yet. Has anyone else?

Fake 28 ga barrels for 12s and 37s are also a problem.

I think model 71s turned into short rifles is more common then most of the faking you guys are talking about!! i know of one so called "DEALER" here in N.H. that supposedly made more then the Winchester factory did.!!! Don

Are you suggesting that I or the previous seller should have done something otherwise? Seems to me that anyone spending money on anything should know what they are buying regardless whether guns, cars or furniture.

You might have problem getting a letter from Cody "authenticating" your 358 that left NH as a 30-06.