Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire What do you think about this cold weather emergency situation.

I haven't read the guy's books, but I've watched him a couple times on TV. His barefoot gimmick is just that: a gimmick. That gig would last about 20 minutes in the wilds of I-94 country in February, tops.

He has an impressive-sounding resume, teaching "survival skills" to folks in Arizona... I don't see anything on his resume indicating he's taught survival skills in North Dakota or Canada, done any ski patrol or mountain rescue training, or in fact any accredited training at all, anywhere!

He's got long blond hair, a muscular build, seems to be socially engagine enough... damn, he sounds a lot like Bigsqueeze did before he "died"!!!

But seriously. Listen to the guys who live and have lived in the really cold places. Leaving your vehicle to dig a snow-cave is a fantasy only a desert-living transplanted Californian could possibly dream up.

get your clothes off and quit breathing into the bag and you'll stay a lot warmer for a lot longer, not to mention dryer.

You'll have to get out of the bag at some point and being wet is not the best way to greet the cold.

Keep your clothes rolled up in the bag with you to keep them warm.

it's not just carbon monoxide you need to worry about, you need to be concerned with carbon dioxide as well. If the vehicle is drifted in the vents won't help you. you need to allow for ventilation to get the CO2 out and let fresh air in. When CO2 levels go up you lose your ability to reason, get sleepy and die. Especially if you are sitting out a blizzard in your vehicle for over a day. There is a reason submarines and spacecraft have CO2 scrubbers.

I don't really care what you do as long as you don't do it in my response area.

My commute totals 102 miles a day, (this winter has been a tough drive some days), I always have with me my snowpants, bunny boots, parka, mittens, water, chemical hand warmers, shovel and a sleeping bag. I also have a bit of food and food for the dog as he travels with me every day. He packs his dog coat and wool blanket.

Boy Scout master told me this when I was a kid. Don't wear your clothing inside a sleeping bag. Socks, and shirt yes, and long johns if you've got them, but not pants and coat. Use outer garments as additional layers over you. If your boot liners are removable pull them out and wear them, but not the boots.

It didn't make sense to me as a kid but I tried it anyway. It was COLD and I was willing to try anything. Definitely makes a difference. Since then I have tried both ways winter camping. I'm convinced.

It is -16 right now and the snow is blowing. Not enough to build a snow cave-man people are so screwed!

Cody Lundkin is one resourceful and smart dude. In ~most~ situations you would be well advised to follow his advice. I have all the respect in the world for him and, like many others, have seen this dude display what he knows on his show. He may be a hippie but he in one tough hippie. :p

I am surprised at this particular piece of advice though. I many situations, especially if there is significant sunlight, your car will be much warmer than the outside temperatures. Radiation is a powerful tool and I have seen him use it in similar situations to provide a very nice shelter. Maybe there were extenuating circumstances in the book that I don't know about. At night the situation is reversed however and your car will drain energy by radiation if it is clear outside. Maybe this is what he means.

That said, in one of the hairiest situations I faced (blizzard of '93 if any of you remember that one) I and a couple other guys abandoned a vehicle in the middle of it and walked out of a pretty remote area. I don't know if it saved our lives but it saved us from a few really, REALLY uncomfortable and dangerous days of being stranded on a mountain in the middle of nowhere.

Will

I think Cody's concern is that warming the interior of the car would take a lot more energy than warming a small shelter and would use up resources faster. Hence the reference to an "ice box."

This is a valid point.

if i half-way thought the NG or the state DOT were on the way, i'd stay in the machine. air-tight, or could slightly crack the windows. during the day, it's a solar heater if the ice and snow are scraped away. at night, the snow might could re-cover the glass. or a blanket might could be attached to block the flow of heat. remember, air tight is good.

in a different location, with no help expected, a plan to hike out might be worthwhile. it all depends. but, i would always think twice about leaving a safe place and overniting in the open air.

I had a buddy stranded for 3 days in a blizzard, fuel ran out in his truck. He burned his rig clothes a small piece at a time, he said he was never really "comfortable" but it kept him alive, he was black from the soot,tired but otherwise alright. Temp at the time was about 35/40 below which is about the same in C or F. You won't find many people here in Saskatchewan who don't travel unprepared these days when it gets chilly. Can't imagine someone would suggest leaving vehicle in these situations. Getting wet/damp means dying.

Could very well be David. I am no survival expert by any stretch.

I think a man has to take these survival guys with a grain of salt sometimes. Not necessarily because they are wrong but because they come at these types of questions from the perspective of being past masters. It is one thing for a strapping guy like Cody to abandon a car in a cold weather survival situation and opt for a shelter he makes. It is quite another for those of us with moderate outdoors skills with maybe a few odds and ends of gear in a truck and a pocket knife to make do with. Quite another for your average joe with no spare clothes or gear in his car, no knowledge of building shelters, suspect physical fitness, etc.

See what I mean? What may be very good thinking for him in this situation may well get a normal man killed.

Will

they did a movie on this a number of years ago, about a young couple from California that got stuck and stranded on Rt 140 here in Oregon...husband left the car for help.. he lost some limbs..

then locally we had the Kim Family that got lost and stranded a few years ago..the husband lost his life...

preparation for this type of event when encountering those environments is common sense... yet I have seen more than once, when it is more important to folks, especially women.. to have room in the car for all of their conveniences for when they get where they are going.. instead of planning for possible emergency..

there has been fights in this family here between me and the wife, when we have gone down to visit my folks during the holidays... we have to cross Mt Ashland and the Siskiyous.. which is always winter weather...

my wife's priorities in the car are..
1. Her stuff.
2. My son's stuff, and his play station and a small TV/VCR to entertain him along the way...
3. Emergency Stuff...
4. My Stuff...

usually there isn't room for the last two things...

if I had a safe place to keep the vehicle in Redding, I'd take two vehicles down that far, the second having the emergency needs in it..

I put in sleeping bags, extra spare tire, small floor jack, board to rest jack on while in snow so it doesn't just sink.. set of chains, tow strap, 5 gal can of fuel..flares ( which make great fire starters also!).. tire iron, tools, emergency food, spare heavier jackets, socks, extra cloths in case the ones you have on get wet..etc.. etc.. etc..

Mt Ashland is the highest point on I 5.. I've been up there and seen people from California, Portland, Seattle in the middle of winter, out in the snow, trying to deal with a flat tire or having ran off the road ( for being stupid)... they are in the snow, wearing ALL they have with them.. T Shirt, shorts,and flip flops....

on the other hand, in my travels across the northern plains in winter in my 4 Runner, I have spent the night in the truck in temps as cold as 40 below in NO Dakota..by choice.. not emergency...
get tired, pull over, crack the windows so my breath has an exit so it won't freeze within the truck and give me pneumonia...and sleep 4 to 6 hours...

difference is.. I was plenty warm as I was set up for it..
wood hat, ( 15% of heat loss is out the top of your head..)in the back of the truck.. thick foam pad.. sleeping back underneath me, in a mummy bag, another regular style thick sleeping bag over that.. wool socks..at 40 below with that, my biggest concern was to make sure I didn't end up sweating .. and have that try to start and freeze.. staying dry is the key also..

this is a reason we teach the boys here in scouts winter survival every year...at our annual Klondike campout..several times it has been below zero.... once exposed tho, it is amazing how quickly these kids learn this stuff...

of course for the moms who volunteer for the kitchen help, we have to make sure they have a warm heated cabin to sleep in..

cold weather survival is common sense, but sadly most folks aren't ever exposed to it..until it is too late, like the Kim Family and the other family stranded on Rt 140 back in the 90s..

It also depends on where in the country he is talking about. A snow storm in WA is much different than in MT or ND or MN. It is also different in March than it is in January and it is different on a highway versus a backroads trail. Just too many variables to say a person should do x. I agree that a snow cave can be warmer than a car. But for a myriad of reasons a car is sufficient. Just like nearly everything, survival is determined by what you do before the test.

Stay in the Car or Truck, the main thing is stay dry, If you can stay dry, you have a much better shot of staying warm. I am not big on leaving a car running for heat. A better option is a couple of long burning candles, crack a window . Two will warm up a small car pretty good. A good Sleeping bag and some Blankets are a must. Some MRE's and a small pack stove or Jet boil and some water for hot drinks, and you will not have much problems. I have stayed out in temps as low as -15 below with not much ill effect.

The windshield scraper never leaves the truck. I keep snow shoes and a shovel in the truck all winter. I always dress so that if I break down half way to where ever I can make it to somewhere snowshoeing. We don't have many stretches that are real far apart. I'm more worried about a mechanical failure than being stuck. Job #1 is make it there alive. There is nothing important enough for me to be out there when it is dicey. A day or two wont matter if I stay home and make the trip later.

Plus, of course, rescue will be looking for your car, and it helps to be there when they arrive instead of wandering around in the snow....

The guy lives in Arizona according to his resume. Better stay with your car and supplies.

stash a case or better of them chemical hand warmer thingies as a foul weather heat source.

I think you are better off staying in the car.

I always bring buffalo hides and squaws along.
The colder the bigger for both!