Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Europe Another innovative combination gun

This kind of shooting makes us in need to invent the "fun Gun"

- Enough stopping power but not to heavy recoil
- Fast second shot (third?), Double barrel,semi,straight pull or pump.?
-Short barrel(s) for fast "swing".?
-Open sight or red dot, not much else than hair to see in a scope?
-Silencer to avoid damage to the dogs and your own hearing.?
-light weight, could be some heavy running after the dog and the moose?
- stock and sight matched for fast shooting?


Any more?

How does the "fun gun" look?

Suggestions?

Paal Dalen

Hi Paal,

Back from dove shooting, not so good today, no wind, i found your "cahier de charge.

To me t's my Tikka T3 light with perfectly ajusted stock to Aimpoint Micro H1 use, in 338 Federal.

Barrel would be cut to 40 cm, thinned and enclosed in a suppressor tube for a total lengh of 50/51cm.

Five shots magazine.

Cartridge handloaded with 230g Oryx or 250grs round nosed Hammerhead (use them on wild boars and reds for "close encounter of third type" with success), for a max of 680 to 715m/s to get enough "oomph" but reduce noise even more. Momentum and penetration in a light and short cartridge.
In case of longer shot needed i can use factory or handloaded max power ammo.

Can double as fast with this rifle than with straight pull or almost as fast. Functioning is flawless. Aimpoint Micro i'm use to use from 5 to 150m. On the rifle would be zeroed +1cm at 50m.

Friend of me already designed such suppressor on 338-7BR (338 Whisper), 338-47mm and it really works.

Project already on study....

But can go to a 9,3x62 with the same treatment too...

The rifle looks like a varmint barreled short one but light enough to be carried long time and stealth enough not to damage dog's hearing.

Dom

I will aska Santa for that Tikka next christmas!

Sounds very good.

Got some questions:
THe 338 Federal sounds like a large caliber to me. Are the boars that difficult to kill?
I have used the 308W a lot and with a 125grs bullet in 850m/s you can chop a moose to pieces, This gives less powder, less recoil and les sound.
Opinions?

Paal Dalen

Hello Paal,

The 338 Fed use the same case as the 308, so not much powder burned, when i reduce speed i like weight and frontal diameter with good structure of bullet to compensate expansion and velocity. Reducing velocity i reduce sound and burn less powder but my bullet penetrate deep and they already are 8,5mm diameter.
Being slow they don't spoil or bloodshed too much meat.

Wild boars, as every game, can be killed easily when stalked, but the big ones hunted in driven hunt, running, full of adrenaline can be harder to down. Not bad shooter i ain't not the pretention to shoot like Prinz Franz-Albrecht of Hunter's Video fame who hit them always at the junction of neck and shoulders breaking spine. So i like bullets a bit heavier and wider than his 270Winch.

I used my T3 with 250grs Hammerhead at close range and it was effective, so i use more.
Be it with "fast" 185 or 200 pills or my slow 250grs.

Take note that i get some years ago 1000 250grs Hammerhead bullets for 50 euros (yes!) so i use them, hunting, shooting, training...And i'm a "big" bore fan from .338 to .50 i like these "freight trains" and the momentum they carry.

I also killed swedish mooses with 7x65R so know they can be put down with smaller calibers but i like the 338Fed cartridge almost as i like the 9,3s..

But and it's a big but, shot placement remain the prime thing for fast go down, but real life, often, is not like in video.

Have good evening.

Dom

Hello!

Answers my questions.

Shot placement will never go out of style.

THe caliber chosen is not too important. Have a friend that uses 223 to anything , polarbear included and the main reason when asked is "cheap bullets". I would personally not take it this far but the 308W sticks with me and when I bought my first gun 25 years ago cheap NATO training ammo in 7,62x51 was the main reason for the caliber chosen.

My "fun gun" favourite at this moment is a Steyr Scout in 308W. THe "scout" mount makes target aqusition very fast in close encounters and you are able to use open sight and a silencer at the same moment. This is a really nice feature and not common amongst hunting guns allowed here.

Are also thinking heavily on a project with a Krieghoff Semprio. Just need to get a hold of one second hand in the right caliber.
Really like that gun and it could be the perfect "fun gun"

Paal.

The bullet shot / game killed ratio during driven hunts tends to be very bad. in Belgium it is about 7/1. I guess it's better in Germany because the training is better and you have probably more dr�cken (slow & silent drives with barely no hound) than in Belgium where the drives are more violent and noisy (barking hounds packs running at full speed behind the game through the forest).

But out of the training and drive system issues, some factors explain why driven game are so hard to kill:

- shot angle: most of the time you have to shoot from 3/4 behind and have more tissues to pierce in order to cause severe damages to both the lungs or heart

- shot spot: when safety angles (including checking there is none walking or cycling around in suburban or touristic hunting grounds, shooting angles, stones on the ground...) and herd management rules (especially with stags ...) are checked, the game is already far from the ideal point, behind bushes and trees, changing directions ...

- game speed and range forces you to calculate advance, you sometimes have to aim far in front of the game to hit it right

- adrenaline: they run for they life with as much strenght as possible, you don't stop them in their tracks if you don't break big bones, even with a heart shot

Only on the "running boar" shooting range, where the range and path are constant, you have ideal shooting conditions;

That's why you have to prefer hard hitting, deep penetrating calibers and munitions for such hunting situations.

Neck shots are too hazardous, you won't do it properly so easily and there is high risk for the game to suffer from a mouth hit, which is the worst wound 'cause the game runs too long to be retrieved and slowly dies from starvation, unable to eat.

Hi GV,

How are you? Like your way of thinking. In driven hunt hard hitter give more insurance for sure even if they don't compensate for very bad plcement.

Hi Paal,

Scout are nice little rifles! This one is 7-08, you know dumb french laws!!Now it wears a 10 rounds mag and a spare.

Good night you both.

Dom

This one is 7-08, you know dumb french laws!!

I do not follow you on this one. Is 308W not allowed in France??

When using dogs on the moose , the moose very often stops in a very thick and dense place of the forest to keep as hidden as possible. This might lead to shots that are difficult to get "clean". My solution was to start using solid copper bullets like the Barnes TSX. They stay in one piece and they penetrate very well. I would prefer this solution compared to getting a bigger caliber and keep on using led bullets that tends to break apart when hitting twigs..

Buts thats only my opinion.. and I hate much recoil when shooting.


Paal Dalen


Paal

Yes, this could be changing for some calibers, thanks to a new law the government has to implement, but Frances used ans uses to ban military calibers and guns able to chamber those calibers, including ex-military calibers (f.e. 8x57, 7x57, 30-06, 6.5x55, ...) and civilian versions of military calibers you can use in or former military weapons ammunitions (f.e. .308 win or .223 rem).

We don't have a lot of experience, here, about the effects of light, quick and all copper bullets such as TSX on driven game.

I saw a 286 grainers TSX in the 9.3x66 work perfectly on roe last sunday, but it's still heavy slug for the caliber. I saw .180 grainers all copper bullets from Lapua doing great job on roes, wild boars and reds but it's still not a light slug in .30-06.

Those bullets are not very common, they are not mandatory and I have to admit we have more classical bullets availabe working perfectly while they are quite inexpensive. Winning habits are the most hard to change among the habits.

Great and really innovative concept.Sounds interesting.

An interesting read throughout. Guns, stands, calibers all in one thread.

Great Movie.
The guy didn't shoot because he was probably having a B>M>

Great dog work. Loved to watch that.

I would want my Marlin .45-70 for that.

The motto of the 2nd US Cavalry Regiment.

Good motto !