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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Casey, I don't measure run-out, but I have noticed a drop in velocities going from the 4th or 5th handload to the same case after having been annealed... can only assume the elevated velocities from the non-annealed cases means work-hardening and increased pressure. I didn't sleep in my own bed last night, but will tonight 
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Outfitter
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Casey, I don't measure run-out, but I have noticed a drop in velocities going from the 4th or 5th handload to the same case after having been annealed... can only assume the elevated velocities from the non-annealed cases means work-hardening and increased pressure. I didn't sleep in my own bed last night, but will tonight Different neck tension from the harder cases affecting pressure?
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
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Casey, I don't measure run-out, but I have noticed a drop in velocities going from the 4th or 5th handload to the same case after having been annealed... can only assume the elevated velocities from the non-annealed cases means work-hardening and increased pressure. I didn't sleep in my own bed last night, but will tonight Different neck tension from the harder cases affecting pressure? Likely the best explanation.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Casey, I don't measure run-out, but I have noticed a drop in velocities going from the 4th or 5th handload to the same case after having been annealed... can only assume the elevated velocities from the non-annealed cases means work-hardening and increased pressure. I didn't sleep in my own bed last night, but will tonight Interesting--I'm gonna have to pay attention to that next time. Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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And honsetly Brad, concentricity has become one of the most important aspects of handloading for accuracy with me--even in plain-jane hunting rigs.
One thing I have noticed in recent times is the more concentric the load, the bigger the sweet spot in terms of bullet to lands distance.
Casey
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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That's generally true--though I have also noticed that bullets with lonh shanks (such as the 200 Partition) aren't as sensitive to run-out.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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And honsetly Brad, concentricity has become one of the most important aspects of handloading for accuracy with me--even in plain-jane hunting rigs.
One thing I have noticed in recent times is the more concentric the load, the bigger the sweet spot in terms of bullet to lands distance.
Casey
I don't dispute that one bit, I'm just not that interested in that level of minutia. Personally, I'm doing every thing I can to simplify handloading and to do it less.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Mac-I've been loading for 4 decades now and have never annealed a case, not even sure how to do it or what the bene's are supposed to be? Could give me/us the short version of what you feel it does for you and or your loads?
Gracias
Dober Dober, I'm only in my 3rd decade of handloading so I'm a relative novice compared to many here. There's a lot of ways to anneal... I prefer the old simple, "spin and dunk" method. Benzomatic torch, 5 gal bucket with some cold water in it. Hold the case base (lower 1/3rd of the case) in your finger tips and spin it in the blue flame of the torch. When it gets too hot to hold, drop it in the waiting bucket of water... you now have an annealed case. You KNOW it's annealed by the blue line that has crept down the case neck to just below the case shoulder. I like to see the blue go about 1/4" below the shoulder. I've noticed pressures and velocity climb with work-hardened cases (IMO/E, those that haven't been annealed beyond four or five reloads). I dry the cases by putting them on a cookie sheet in the oven on low for 1hr. Thanks for the explanation. Very concise. P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Pharm, you're welcome. Only thing I should have made clearer is you're aiming the blue flame at the shoulder.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I think most people get the brass too hot.
Just my 2 cents.
<g>
Randy
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Campfire Ranger
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That's generally true--though I have also noticed that bullets with lonh shanks (such as the 200 Partition) aren't as sensitive to run-out. I really like that bullet.
Randy
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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It's impossible to get the brass too hot if it's in your fingers (provided you're not a masochist). The blue line tells the rest of the story.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Ranger
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I know Brad, my comment was not directed at you.
I was going off what I have seen a few of my friend do. I should of been more clear.
Randy
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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That's generally true--though I have also noticed that bullets with lonh shanks (such as the 200 Partition) aren't as sensitive to run-out. Huh....never thought of that.Good point!
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I know Brad, my comment was not directed at you.
I was going off what I have seen a few of my friend do. I should of been more clear.
No problem at all.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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That's generally true--though I have also noticed that bullets with lonh shanks (such as the 200 Partition) aren't as sensitive to run-out. Huh....never thought of that.Good point! +1... what I don't know about handloading would fill volumes. And it will likely stay that way. 
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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IK watched as your posted five or six of Dobrenski's rifles with the claim that each "had killed hundreds of animals".
Hey Royce, like everything you said, the above kind of made me scratch my head as I never remember saying any such thing, so I dug around and found the post I put up of Dober's rifles... there is absolutely no claim or implication anywhere by me that each rifle "had killed hundreds of animals"... funny thing is though, those rifles likely have I made that post as a gesture of kindness for a really good man and friend. Just like jealousy is a sad thing, friendship is a wonderful thing, and you might like to try it some time. Just thought I'd further clarify for you... http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4930286/Dober_Rifles
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire Tracker
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Isn't the simple answer, in the search for this holy grail, to just use a longer barrel? I would hypothesize that with a 25-inch or 26-inch barrel, you could get the 200  2,700 and have long case life. The new Model 70 Alaskans have 25-inch barrels and are available in .30/06. I might have to buy one just to test my own thesis. I've attained 2,700 with a 200-grain bullet in 24-inch barrels but I doubt that I could get 10 reloads out of those cases.
Keep your gun-hand ready and your eyes peeled.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Ok all, lately I've read of more than a couple people toting an 06 loaded with 200's running @ 2700 fps. (comes up a lot when the 06 vs 338/06 debate comes up)
I've never used a .30-06 with 200's, but I have a question related to this statement. What wouldn't a .338 210 grn Partition started out at 2700 - 2750 fps give adequate penetration on? Take that a step further, what wouldn't an ordinary Speer or Hornady 200 grn .338 bullet started at 2700 -2750 fps be adequate for? If these already penetrate "enough", than what's to gain by using something with "more"? I get the increased BC of the 200 grain .30 cal, but how many dudes are using a .30-06 for long range work where you actually see this difference anyway? Anyone?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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There's an answer to the 2700fps-200 gr question in the 30/06.It's called a 300 Win Mag.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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