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Since I'm a GM fan, I've wanted a Duramax since they first came out. So when my brother-in-law was in need of wheels, I decided it was time to give him my trusty 99 Silverado 1500 Z71 and replace it with an oil burning Chevy. I started browsing the classifieds back home, and sent my wife looking at a few trucks. They say the third time is a charm, and this time it proved to be true. Here is the third truck she looked at. It's got low miles for the year (120K - just broke in for a diesel), and has been very well maintained. My 02 Chevy Silverado LT 2500 HD 4X4: ![[Linked Image]](http://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/attachments/general-discussion/38633d1328212503-heres-my-02-2500-hd-dsc00901-800x600-.jpg)
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
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At first, I thought that was a lot of snow for Afghanistan then I read your post. It is way cool that you have a wife that can filter through and come up with a good truck like that. Looks like she did well!
Oh, and thank you bunches for your service to protect mine and my family's freedoms.
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Joined: Sep 2009
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A friend has that same year Duramax truck with about 330K on it. He's just now having injector issues and I think it was mostly lack of maintenence.
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Joined: Feb 2005
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If your friend got 330,000 miles out of a single original '02 design set of LB7 injectors, he would likely be the only one on the planet. I have yet to see anyone on the GM diesel forums get past around 250,000 miles without an injector failure on an LB7 and that is as a regular contributor since '02. Your suggestion that the failures at that mileage were due to lack of maintenance would likely be completely off-base too. LB7 injectors have been through numerous engineering changes, the latest revision being in 2008, in an effort to increase life. If you don't understand HPCR, then you likely wouldn't understand why the Duramax engine was redesigned as the LLY to get the injectors out from under the valve covers. An injector that operates at approximately 23,000 PSI is significantly different than an old 6.2 or 6.5 diesel injector.
I've had additional 2 micron fuel filtration installed since approximately 65,000 miles on my '02 LB7 and used fuel additive since day one. I made it to 220,000 miles before I began to get smoke at idle. I've also kept a close eye on injector balance rates throughout those 220,000 miles. Tech labor hours for LB7 injector replacement under warranty is around 9 hours.
LB7 injectors WILL fail. Some only go 60,000 miles before failure and some make it 200,000 miles. Fuel filtration and additives play a part in injector life, but they do not completely resolve the issues of ball seat wear and cracked injector bodies, which are the two primary causes of failures. Bosch has made attempts to correct those two failures in the numerous engineering changes over the last 11 yrs without significant success. Put some funds aside to be able to pay the $ 200.00 each for injectors and plan to do at least 4 at a time on the side you have to open the valve cover on in order to save yourself lots of labor if DIY.
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If your friend got 330,000 miles out of a single original '02 design set of LB7 injectors, he would likely be the only one on the planet. I have yet to see anyone on the GM diesel forums get past around 250,000 miles without an injector failure on an LB7 and that is as a regular contributor since '02. Your suggestion that the failures at that mileage were due to lack of maintenance would likely be completely off-base too. LB7 injectors have been through numerous engineering changes, the latest revision being in 2008, in an effort to increase life. If you don't understand HPCR, then you likely wouldn't understand why the Duramax engine was redesigned as the LLY to get the injectors out from under the valve covers. An injector that operates at approximately 23,000 PSI is significantly different than an old 6.2 or 6.5 diesel injector.
I've had additional 2 micron fuel filtration installed since approximately 65,000 miles on my '02 LB7 and used fuel additive since day one. I made it to 220,000 miles before I began to get smoke at idle. I've also kept a close eye on injector balance rates throughout those 220,000 miles. Tech labor hours for LB7 injector replacement under warranty is around 9 hours.
LB7 injectors WILL fail. Some only go 60,000 miles before failure and some make it 200,000 miles. Fuel filtration and additives play a part in injector life, but they do not completely resolve the issues of ball seat wear and cracked injector bodies, which are the two primary causes of failures. Bosch has made attempts to correct those two failures in the numerous engineering changes over the last 11 yrs without significant success. Put some funds aside to be able to pay the $ 200.00 each for injectors and plan to do at least 4 at a time on the side you have to open the valve cover on in order to save yourself lots of labor if DIY. Odd that the Cummins common rail (HPCR) system uses Bosch injectors under the valve cover and does not suffer a high injector failure rate. I wonder what else is different? Sure, I've heard of the odd single injector fail on Cummins engines at lowish (60-80k) miles, but its the exception, rather than the rule. Very common to see 300k plus miles without injector problems on the 5.9's.
To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.
Promoted to Turdlike status 03/17/12
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Joined: Feb 2005
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The difference is the design of the injectors and installation into the head have been changed. The being under the valve covers had nothing to do with the failure rate. The relocation from under the valve covers was driven by the high failure rates and the labor involved in replacing injectors and return line issues. Just as the design was changed on the 2nd generation Duramax(LLY), in addition to being accessible without removing the upper and lower valve covers. The LLY does not suffer nearly the same injector failure rate as the LB7. As with most things, the very first designs in a new system often suffer higher failure rates. This in turn allows the 2nd generation to take advantage of the lessons learned and make appropriate engineering changes to improve life expectancy. You've got to remember, you're talking apples and oranges as they weren't both in production at the same time. HPCR didn't start into production on the Cummins until '03 at which time the LB7 was going into redesign, appearing as the LLY in '04.
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Not to worry gents, I did my homework and I know about the injector issues with the LB7. I have another 80K miles before I have to worry about changing them myself, and when that time comes I'll be ready. I'm a pretty fair wrench, so I won't have to pay for labor either. I was actually specifically looking for an LB7 truck, since they get the best fuel economy of all the Duramax variations, due to less emissions equipment.
Longbob - I am a blessed man to have the wife I do! She was the one who did the leg work on that half-ton Silverado I gave to my brother in law too. She bought that one for me in '06 while I was in Iraq on my first deployment.
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
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Good luck with the Dmax and thanks for your service!
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If your friend got 330,000 miles out of a single original '02 design set of LB7 injectors, he would likely be the only one on the planet. I have yet to see anyone on the GM diesel forums get past around 250,000 miles without an injector failure on an LB7 and that is as a regular contributor since '02. Your suggestion that the failures at that mileage were due to lack of maintenance would likely be completely off-base too. LB7 injectors have been through numerous engineering changes, the latest revision being in 2008, in an effort to increase life. If you don't understand HPCR, then you likely wouldn't understand why the Duramax engine was redesigned as the LLY to get the injectors out from under the valve covers. An injector that operates at approximately 23,000 PSI is significantly different than an old 6.2 or 6.5 diesel injector.
I've had additional 2 micron fuel filtration installed since approximately 65,000 miles on my '02 LB7 and used fuel additive since day one. I made it to 220,000 miles before I began to get smoke at idle. I've also kept a close eye on injector balance rates throughout those 220,000 miles. Tech labor hours for LB7 injector replacement under warranty is around 9 hours.
LB7 injectors WILL fail. Some only go 60,000 miles before failure and some make it 200,000 miles. Fuel filtration and additives play a part in injector life, but they do not completely resolve the issues of ball seat wear and cracked injector bodies, which are the two primary causes of failures. Bosch has made attempts to correct those two failures in the numerous engineering changes over the last 11 yrs without significant success. Put some funds aside to be able to pay the $ 200.00 each for injectors and plan to do at least 4 at a time on the side you have to open the valve cover on in order to save yourself lots of labor if DIY. BUSTED! Cause I don't know schit about diesel engines, I just know a couple of guys who own one. After reading your post, I'm thinking my mechanic may be a smart guy everytime he talks me out of buying one.
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Don't get me wrong, the LB7 I have has really had very few issues. It's averaged 40 mph for over 223,000 miles and that is with a 9 mile round trip commute for the last 6 years. I really don't like the newer ones with the emissions equipment on them either.
Injectors aren't difficult to do, more time consuming than anything. Only a few somewhat special tools are required. The OEM Service Manuals from Helm Inc are helpful for changing injectors as you need to torque everything properly. Newer high pressure lines are plated in order to minimize the corrosion problems that the original design had. Additional quality fuel filtration and additives to deal with both free water and lubricity generally appear to help some with injector life. Addition of a lift pump should help with CP3 life and makes it much easier to find leaks as the original fuel system is under vacuum rather than pressure. I've only had a lift pump setup installed for the last 2,000 miles so I say it "should" help with CP3 life.
The whole job should run you about $1600.00 for GM Bosch reman injectors and somewhere around $6-800.00 for high pressure lines, return line seals, etc; so around $2400 - 2500.00 depending on what you run into.
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Joined: Feb 2005
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BUSTED! Cause I don't know schit about diesel engines, I just know a couple of guys who own one. After reading your post, I'm thinking my mechanic may be a smart guy everytime he talks me out of buying one.
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
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Joined: Dec 2011
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Thanks for all the info Hound - you sure seem to know your stuff!
"Noone has a more intimate understanding of, or deeper appreciation for freedom than a soldier who has fought for it in a country where it does not exist."
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[quote=AlaskanMatt]Not to worry gents, I did my homework and I know about the injector issues with the LB7. I have another 80K miles before I have to worry about changing them myself, and when that time comes I'll be ready. I'm a pretty fair wrench, so I won't have to pay for labor either. I was actually specifically looking for an LB7 truck, since they get the best fuel economy of all the Duramax variations, due to less emissions equipment.
If you are thinking of the factory 200,000 mile coverage I believe it was good for 7 years.
Hound va I think labor to replace 8 injectors is 17 hours.
great comments on the issues
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I've had additional 2 micron fuel filtration installed Something anyone running a common rail should do, cheap protective maintenance with our chitty diesel fuel here in the States.
Life is just one damned thing after another
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I have a 06 duramax with the LBZ engine. This suffer from the same injector failures mentioned hear?
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Have not had much for problems from the LLY (one previous to yours) on. Mostly the LB7
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Congrats! My '03 is running strong at 100K-plus. Some suggestions: Nicktane secondary fuel filter, or an AirDog II lift pump with 2-micron filter (I have both). Secondary bypass oil filtration. I have an OilGuard. You can pick up PPE centrifuges pretty reasonably anymore. No filters to replace on the latter. Check out www.dieselplace.com, if you haven't already.
"What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value. Heaven knows how to put a proper price upon its goods; and it would be strange indeed if so celestial an article as freedom should not be highly rated." Thomas Paine
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I have a 06 duramax with the LBZ engine. This suffer from the same injector failures mentioned hear? I haven't kept up on the LBZ as much, but like Chris said, they seem to have their own issues which doesn't include the injector issues of the first generation Duramax (LB7).
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Joined: Feb 2005
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Congrats! My '03 is running strong at 100K-plus. Some suggestions: Nicktane secondary fuel filter, or an AirDog II lift pump with 2-micron filter (I have both). Secondary bypass oil filtration. I have an OilGuard. You can pick up PPE centrifuges pretty reasonably anymore. No filters to replace on the latter. Check out www.dieselplace.com, if you haven't already. The idea that one buys a truck that cost upwards of $40K, then has to add a bunch of aftermarket parts to make it last is a sad state of affairs. My 01 Dodge diesel was the same way. Had to add a new fuel pump to make the injection pump last and had to add multiple front end parts to make it last/steer properly.
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I wouldn't say anyone is saying you "have" to add these things in order to make your truck last longer. I haven't seen any scientific tests resulting in additional 2 micron fuel filtration will make your injectors last so many more miles. You have to remember that the OEM fuel filter has been redesigned numerous times over the years. That said, I don't believe one will find any scientific testing that results in additional fuel filtration causing injectors to fail so many miles sooner. People who recommend additional fuel filtration are generally an ounce of prevention types of people.
Personally I don't see the benefit of adding a bypass oil filter on a truck with such a small sump capacity. I have had an Oil Guard bypass filter on mine since approximately 54,000 miles. I also have the UOA for nearly every oil change for over 220,000 miles. Once I surpass approximately 10,000 miles for an oil change interval, the wear metal levels begin to make me a bit uncomfortable. Again, that's personal interpretation and subject to a huge number of variables when compared to every other truck in use on the planet. Nothing I have seen scientifically shows that adding one to a small sump capacity engine will make it last longer. It may extend ones oil change interval which saves one money, but it hasn't been proven to prolong engine life any more than the change interval recommended in the manual for severe conditions.
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