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If the .243 is an Elk killing machine with 95 grain bullets,why wouldn't the .223 with 60-62 grain Nosler and Barnes not be also?
62 grain .223 Federal Fusions penetrate 15" in ballistic gel and I would expect the Nosler and Barnes to go farther.
So why not the .223 for Elk or is the .243 the lowest caliber lethal to Elk without a head shot?
Jayco
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Why not. Shoot an elk in the lungs,with a good bullet. It stumbles off 100 yards and dies.
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because it is illegal in WY to use a caliber smaller than 243 for big game
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I knew guys who would fill cow tags with a .223. Opening morning, head shot at under 100 yards.
It's all in the reflexes.
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Even though I disagree with using a 223 for elk, if the 223 were legal for elk in a state and one wanted that challenge, then I would have no reason not to support it.
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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Don't stop with elk. Go kill a water buffalo.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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I realize in some States it is not legal but the huge advance in bullet technology has upped smaller calibers lethal too,several notches from back when.
If a mediocre .223 bullet will penetrate 15" in ballistic gel and expand to .54 caliber,then a well placed shot with a .223 and premium type bullets,should be an Elk killer,just like a 95 grain .243 bullet...Right?
I don't know how many of you guys have been in on penetration test in ballistic gel,but 15" isn't all that bad compared to even some 45-70 jacketed bullets.....Like 3" shy of the 400 grain Swift A-Frame tested by Rick Jamison!
Jayco
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Its illegal.......
But, if it weren't, I still think that its not appropriate regardless of whether it would work or not. I don't know of anyone who drives railroad spikes with framing hammers. I don't know why anyone would insist on using the smallest caliber possible when there are so many other choices that provide a larger margin of error.
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I dont see why one would find it necessary, or even ethical to use such a teeny tiny gun/bullet for such a big strong, tough animal. This type of thread comes up quite often, and honestly it kind of lights a fire under me. I truly do not see the point of wanting to shoot the smallest caliber to take one of the strongets animals in North America, or in general.
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Okay..The difference between the .243 and .223/.224 is .019 in diameter....
Federal Fusion .243/95 grain Fusion is 2980 fps.
Black Hills .223/62 grain TSX is ......3100 fps.
So why will the .243 kill Elk just fine and the .223 won't?My bet is the 62 grain .223/.224 TSX will penetrate as far as the 95 grain/.243 Fusion..Could be wrong and correct me if you have seen different.
I am curious why some may think the .243 is an Elk killing machine and the .223 isn't or can't be atleast equal with todays bullets and loads other than that huge .019 difference in diameter out of the muzzle.
Jayco
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Maybe some of us who think the .223 is lousy for elk. Think the same thing about the .243.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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The absolute smallest rifle I would shoot for a elk is a 25-06/257 wby. That is becaue I have seen first hand the 100 TTSX on a elk. It would not be my first choice (first would be my 300wsm).
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REFERENCE reference 1. CEN TERFIRE RIFLES a. Must be minimum of .24 caliber (6 mm). b. Must have a minimum 16-inch barrel and be at least 26 inches long. c. If semiautomatic, they can hold a maximum of six rounds in the magazine and chamber combined. d. Must use expanding bullets that weigh minimum 70 grains for deer, pronghorn and bear, 85 grains for elk and moose, and have an impact energy (at 100 yards) of 1,000-ft. pounds as rated by manufacturer. e. It is illegal to hunt game birds, small-game mammals or furbearers with a centerfire rifle larger than .23 caliber during regular rifle deer and elk seasons west of I-25, without an unfilled deer or elk license for the season. A small-game, furbearer or unfilled big-game license is required. 2. FULLY AU TOMATIC
Here's one reason.This is from the Colorado Reg.
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I am always interested in other States regs.Thanks,Gravestone,I didn't know that about Colorado...
Not the case in Idaho though, nor am I pushing the .223 for Elk...
Jayco
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Your welcome. Not sure but i believe most elk inhabited states have a 243 min. requirement. I guess that's way the question of Elk with a 243 is asked on the forums.
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The short bus must be closed today being it is Presidents Day?
Turn me loose, set me free, somewhere in the middle of Montana!
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Why is it people want to shoot big game with a 223. And the people who have them all want a fast twist barrel so they can shoot 60-70 grain bullets. If you want to play with the big boys grow some stones and get a bigger gun. Would you use a tack hammer to pound in a pole barn spike...The same applies with your firearms. Use the right tool for the job.
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Idaho's says on page 67 of the hunting regs: http://fishandgame.idaho.govBig Game Rules 67 Weapon Restrictions Rifle and Shotgun In any hunt, including any-weapon seasons, it is unlawful to pursue or kill big game animals: � By any means other than approved firearms, muzzleloaders and archery methods. � With any electronic device attached to, or incorporated on, the firearm or scope; Except scopes containing battery powered or tritium lighted reticles are allowed. � With any firearm that, in combination with a scope, sling and/or any attachments, weighs more than 16 pounds. � With any fully automatic firearm. � With any shotgun using shot smaller than #00 buck. � With any rimfire rifle, rimfire handgun, or muzzleloading handgun, except for mountain lions.Jayco
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Idaho's says on page 67 of the hunting regs: http://fishandgame.idaho.govBig Game Rules 67 Weapon Restrictions Rifle and Shotgun In any hunt, including any-weapon seasons, it is unlawful to pursue or kill big game animals: � By any means other than approved firearms, muzzleloaders and archery methods. � With any electronic device attached to, or incorporated on, the firearm or scope; Except scopes containing battery powered or tritium lighted reticles are allowed. � With any firearm that, in combination with a scope, sling and/or any attachments, weighs more than 16 pounds. � With any fully automatic firearm. � With any shotgun using shot smaller than #00 buck. � With any rimfire rifle, rimfire handgun, or muzzleloading handgun, except for mountain lions.Jayco Must be more than that? What's an approved rifle? You can't even use a .223 on deer here. Let alone elk.
Last edited by Mauser_Hunter; 02/20/12.
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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You could legally shoot an elk (or moose) in ID and/or MT with a .17 Hornet. I wouldn't try it, though I solidly believe 22 centerfires are fine for deer. Elk, I'd be on the fence till I saw it happen a few times.
I am pretty sure Scenar killed a big bull with a 220 Swift, but believe it was a target of opportunity for him while predator hunting, not elk hunting.
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