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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
'Lil John Nice AR and I agree with you on most things other than Berger bullets,especially in an AR aka .223 where penetration is not a given. I haven't had time to get a good picture of mine but I did go outside and snap one on my cell phone..Nothing like yours but it is a Smith and Wesson with less than $700 the way it sits. I am not 100% sure yet,but I just might go black this year and never look back! Jayco
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 830
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2006
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Only wimps use the 223, personally I use my 222. I can knock a wart off a gnat with that gun. And we all know accuracy is really the only thing you need to kill an animal
Venor ergo sum
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
There 'ya go TX..Accuracy is everything... The .223 is just a 222 AI. Jayco
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 12,651
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2004
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There 'ya go TX..Accuracy is everything... ... Accuracy is the main thing but it isn't everything. Further, there is sometimes a discrepancy between desired and actual placement. If accuracy was everything we could all hunt with .22 rimfires and save a lot of money.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,485 Likes: 18
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 69,485 Likes: 18 |
FWIW, I was on a caribou hunt years ago in the NWT. The Eskimo guide I hunted with had with him an old Remington 700 in .222. There wasn't one bit of bluing on the steel or varnish left on the stock. It had a 4X Leupold with tapered crosshair. He told me that he had killed over 30 Polar Bears and that many grizzly bears with it along with thousands of caribou, moose and muskox....I had no doubt he was telling me the truth. He was a hell of an outdoorsman and ran a skinning knife better than anyone I've ever seen. Did he also tell you how many he shot and didn't recover? Not likely and I'll bet the number was high.
βIn a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.β β George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,354
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2004
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I wouldn't even hesitate to kill an elk with a .223...
I've seen what a 223/TSX does to a cow buffalo, and seen the exit hole, rib in, rib out... Elk ain't any more bullet proof.
The repetitive theme seems to be marginal shots and trying to make up for that with bullet mass. Quit making schitty shots.
"Your range of experience runs that gamut from A to B, plus you're a nitwit. That's a hard combination to overcome, though some people try." - JB
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,227
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2011
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Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,972 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 16,972 Likes: 1 |
Do ya drive a Moped on the Interstate
It'll get you there but if things go wrong it won't be a nice thing.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,262
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,262 |
Back in the 50s a sports writer ran a series of tests on the best cartridge for shooting through brush. and he did it in a way to prove wich ones would give the best group. the .270 150 grain cartridge did the best the worst were the large 45 calibers and the high speed .224 calibers.and I believe he did an excellant job at it.he used wooden dowls arranged in the same pattern for all the shots.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277 |
Huh, I'm not following...?
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,990 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
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IMO: The title..."Elk and the .223.Why not?" Answer..In several states it is not even legal and it is a small bore designed for varmints or wimmpy creatures like humans. The body of the post..if a .243 is an elk killing machine why not the .223 etc.etc.. Answer..if the .243 was an elk killing machine then you could make that argument..if a 22-250 is a coyote killing machine, then why not a .223, then why not a .222, then why not a .22 hornet, then why not a 22mag, then why not a 22 lr and i'll skip the 22 long and just get right to the short ! No SERIOUS elk hunters think a .243 is a elk killing machine. If a .243 was and elk killing machine then yes, why not the .223 ? Let me know when we get down to the .22 short cause it will kill and elk also, likely even fronm a 2" snub nose pistol..go right through the orbitable socket just so the odds will make it better for a clean kill if thats a consideration..
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,285
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,285 |
Chuck Norris hunts elk with a .223rem.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,227
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2011
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Chuck Norris hunts elk with a .223rem. I thought Chuck just gave them a flying kick?
Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,990 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,990 Likes: 1 |
chuck told me theres no difference between doctor Kavorkian and the taliban w/a knife and a video camera..either way you end up dead so whats the big deal ? Hard to argue with that logic....
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 19,179
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2010
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IMO: The title..."Elk and the .223.Why not?" Answer..In several states it is not even legal and it is a small bore designed for varmints or wimmpy creatures like humans. The body of the post..if a .243 is an elk killing machine why not the .223 etc.etc.. Answer..if the .243 was an elk killing machine then you could make that argument..if a 22-250 is a coyote killing machine, then why not a .223, then why not a .222, then why not a .22 hornet, then why not a 22mag, then why not a 22 lr and i'll skip the 22 long and just get right to the short ! No SERIOUS elk hunters think a .243 is a elk killing machine. If a .243 was and elk killing machine then yes, why not the .223 ? Let me know when we get down to the .22 short cause it will kill and elk also, likely even fronm a 2" snub nose pistol..go right through the orbitable socket just so the odds will make it better for a clean kill if thats a consideration.. TOTALLY AGREE Good Job
jwall- *** 3100 guy***
A Flat Trajectory is Never a Handicap
Speed is Trajectory's Friend !!
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 667
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 667 |
The funny thing about most guys in the 223 killing crowd, all use other cartridges also. If the 223 was such a great killing machine then why would they use anything else? Why not sell all their other firearms that are not chambered in 223?
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,168 Likes: 16 |
I am pretty sure everyone who said the .223 would work also said it was a limited range affair and compared it to other limited range types of hunting, ie bow hunting or muzzle loaded hunting. I have heard rumors that most western states are now considering having special AR-15 elk seasons for the use of rifles like JaycoοΏ½s. These hunts would be during the rut and most likely overlap existing bow and muzzle loaded season to offer all the new owners of such guns a chance to use them. From what I have read barrel lengths will be a max of 16 inches and magazines must be able to hold a minimum of 20 rounds to be legal. Contact your local game and fish to show your support.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 667
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
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"It's not about headstamps, it's placement", "It's all about the type of bullet, use Barnes TSX", I haven't read the entire thread but have heard these types of statements many times on the campfire. I've not heard the word "limitations" by the hardcore 223 advocates. I guess that if a guy wanted to limit his shots you could take that to the 22LR but I'll take every advantage the law allows within reason.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,096 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,096 Likes: 5 |
Comparing the 223 to a 22LR is ridiculous.
A 223 is what it is, but I cannot equate a 40gr lead bullet at 1200 fps, with a 70gr TSX at 2900 fps.
If you can, well, I believe you.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 667
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 667 |
Mr Burns brought up the "limitations" issue. You can take that to any extreme you want to. Would you not consider a 22LR a limiting factor when elk hunting?
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