Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Skull pictures. (hogs & javelina)

http://community.webshots.com/user/tominsa
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<br>I posted five skull pictures there under Boars at the bottom. According to JJs skull page the straight one would be a Russian boar, the curved one would be a more plain wild boar. The smaller ones are two javelina skulls. Note that the Russian one is longer than the wild boar also.
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<br>I have a idea maybe Russians are pretty common around here because its only a few hours to the coast where the Spanish dropped them off long ago. So, they could keep pretty pure. There are places they are pretty common around here.
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<br>What do you think?

This is a good topic as I have been studying this for many years. As you may know we process 100's of skulls each year and plenty are from various species of wild swine. I like hog hunting about as much as any kind of hunting so I had a special interest in the skulls of all these "wild swine". Whether they are called Wild boar, razorbacks, Piney wood rooters, "russian boars" feral hogs or what ever name they have been given.
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<br>I have written articles for the news paper called the "Califorina hog hunter" and had long discussions with Hog hunters in Oklahoma, Texas, California, and New Hampshire, Oh yeah, even Tennesse, regarding the origins and populations of the hogs each area has. I was pretty well convinced of the True blood lines on European hogs only after hunting in New hampshire. The species of hogs they had was entirely different then anything I had ever seen. This is what really peaked my interest in figuring out why almost everybody refered to hairy wild pigs as "Russian Boars".
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<br>I suppose the name Russian boar was suppose to elevate the target to a higher status. As well it should. Those animals of a true blood Russian blood line are enormous and with certain charactistics that are much different then what most folks call "Russian boars" The great majority of wild swine likely came from european or Asian origin. Probably through shipping and the long travels across the ocean where refrigeration was not possible. With that type of live stock used for food the european origin was likely but not with a true wild boar. The hogs they carried across with them were of a domestic origin so that they could be managed. Nobody packed a true 500 pound wild beast of a boar which would fight and kill any other pig in the same enclosure all the way across the ocean for food.
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<br>There were two notable origins of true wild hogs with a third spin off population. The very first was New Hampshire by a man who imported them from Russia for hunting on a large private reserve. The second and most famous was another identical venture in Tennesse. Those hogs all escaped on the first hunting day and not a single one was killed. In Tennesse it was popular during that era to leave your hogs run wild with a certain notch pattern in the ear for identification. These wild but "domestic" hogs eventually joined up with the escaped Russsian hogs and that is the origin in Tennessee. The New hampshire hogs as far as I know are still Just Russian or European in genetic's
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<br>The Spin off population happend on Santa Cruise island in California. There were some hogs released there of pure European blood lines. As explained to me they are to this day a strong genetic population of some type of European swine, although much smaller then the true "Russian hogs" of the Soviet Union, Poland, Czec republic, etc. Now rumor has it that some of these European "pure blood line hogs" were smuggled off Santa Cruise Island a long time ago and released in A few areas of Northern California. These have since been running wild and breeding with the others species of wild swine in a similiar situation to Tennessee. The California European stock is not a Russian strain but from a smaller and faster breeding population. Still with similiar physical features, and black hair. they do not have the body mass, height, or skull size of the true Russian hogs.
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<br>Those in Texas and Oklahoma including the surrounding states of Arkansas and Louisana are simply Feral domestic stock which has run wild since the beginning of human habitation in The area. There is a web site which explains the origin or wild swine in Texas. I cannot recall the site name but I think it's associated with a college in Texas. I will include a few photo's of the various swine I have come across in reference to this.
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<br>The skull on the Left is the one direct from the Soviet Union. It is a good sized adult Boar. The one on the right is a 300 pound boar from California. Note the skull slope and size. I have seen a 100 skulls from the USA that are about as big as the one from CA. It's a big adult wild boar. However it's not even close in size to the Russian Boar skull. It's been our experience that to get a hog skull equal in size to the Pure Russian hog it must be crossbred with a domestic hog which then changes the slope of the skull. It's not to tough to get a flat skull that is smaller from the other European species, but it's not possible to get one as big as the one shown here and have the skull flat.
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<br>Look at the length of this skull ! 18 plus inches long, has anyone ever seen a skull from an American killed hog this long and perfectly flat? I think not!
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<br> Here is a good idea of the flat skull genetics of a Russian or European species of hog.
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<br>Here is a typical wild hog from the USA at about 300 pounds look at how young it is. The rear molars have not completely erupted yet and he is already about 300 pounds. The same hog in the Soviet Union would only be 150 pounds and two times the age! The American hog skull shown is from a pig that is about 6-8 months old.
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<br>This photo is from the Russian hog showing all molars fully developed and with some major tooth wear. Few wild hogs in the USA will even come close to the genitics of a True wild European hog. I have yet to see one 16" long and the European wild hogs from Europe will make that length on a regular basis with the long flat snout.

Very interesting, but all I can see is red x's. Am I the only one that can't see the pictures?

The pictures are there for me. JJ, the boards that my flat skull is sitting on are 1 inchx 4 inch boards. That flat skull right there is 17 inches if the boards were 4 and it has inches cut off from behind the eye socket. Did you look at it?
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<br>Its flat, its real Russian, but without papers. I think its Russian like your Russian skull picture that you said is 18 inches if you add on what was cut off. It was shot about 10 miles northwest of San Antonio, Texas in Helotes, TX. There are more around here where he came from. I don't know where they came from, but they are there and they sure seem like the Russian boar you describe. I'll try to find some more detailed history on them here.

Tom, I would be very interested in seeing an exact measurement on that skull. Put between blocks with a ruler as mine is shown. That official scoring jig in the photo is 100% accurate. 4" wide lumber boards by actual measuer are 3.5" wide, as you might know 2X4's are not 2" x4"!
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<br>By all means I would love to see an exact measure between two flat objects of the over all length. I have never seen one as big as that. It would be interesting to add to the data base I have. Just get a ruler and two blocks of wood or cinder blocks. push them up tight at each end and lay a ruler in the photo between them. I'm guessing its a big hog but likely about 16" going by the 3.5" wide boards.

http://www.noble.org/Ag/Wildlife/FeralHogs/02-History.htm
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<br>Russian boars in Oklahoma.
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<br>�Today, there are areas in the U.S. where the pure Russian wild boar (native to European and Asian continents) can still be found due to importation for sport hunting.�
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<br>http://texnat.tamu.edu/symposia/feral/feral-6.htm
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<br>Native European and Asian boars in Texas.
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<br>�The Denman releases along the central Texas coast are probably the best known in Texas. In about 1930 - 1933 the first known importations of European wild boars were recorded when approximately eleven were obtained from the San Antonio zoo and escaped or were released near Austwell in Aransas county. An additional 10-15 were released in 1939 between Port O'Conner and Seadrift in Calhoun county. They readily crossed with domestic or feral hogs (Mayer and Brisbin 1991). The next reported release of European hogs occurred in the early 1940 when a rancher in northwest Bexar county purchased several from a traveling zoo and consequently released them into the wild. Following a fence - destroying flood which allowed the animals to escape into the surrounding areas of eastern Medina and southern Bandera county, these hogs also readily bred with free ranging domestic hogs (Mayer and Brisbin 1991).�
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<br>"Christopher Columbus is originally credited with bringing the first hogs to the New World when he brought eight to the West Indies in 1493."
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<br>"Hogs have been around Texas for many centuries but have increased substantially in the last few decades."
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<br>This is Bexar county where I'm at, Medina and Bandera county are neighboring counties. That flat long one I took a picture of is from northwest Bexar county a few years ago now. He's probably a decendent of that release mentioned in the quote from the web page and Texas A&M conference above. I think he'll go more than 16 inches, especially when you add on for the part that was cut off of the back of his skull.
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<br>When exotics were being developed in Texas they had to live in quarentine in zoo like conditions. Then only their healthy offspring could be taken or released from quarentine.
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<br>We can hunt wild boars year round, day and night, over bait, with spotlights, i.e. 365 days a year just about anyway you want, and there are still about 1 million of them in this state.
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I can see them now for some reason.

Tom, do you have a digital camera to post the size of that skull for me? Even if you email it. Just put it between to blocks and use a ruler between them for size comparison. Make sure the blocks are square or parallel to each other. I will need it to be clear for the paper I will use it in.
<br>Thanks jj

Pretty sure there are not any like that east of the Brazos. All I have ever seen are just wild hog. There will be a few occasionally that will show more "Russian" than others. That is longer in the leg and more wedge built. More slope from shoulders to tail. I am not sure if they have russian in them or are just reverting to a more primitive body type.
<br>BCR

I haven't hunted them east of the Brazos, but it says some were released in Calhoun county, that's on the coast east of here. I didn't figure out if its east of the Brazos.
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<br>I got the picture in a similar position to JJs 18+ inch one from the Soviet Union. It looks like its got about an inch cut off, so it would be 15-16 inches. Its 14 9/16 with the part cut off missing. You can see how flat it is in this picture also. I'll post it in a bit.