Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Personal issue, opinions needed

As sad as it is to say, churches get worse than any political fiasco ever could, they are smaller fiefdoms. Whenever there is a board involved, especially a smaller one such as this four, no single outsider or newby is ever going to go up against them. Too many people are going to side with the longer term element.

The new pastor was in a position of supervising new building, he may have been critical of any number of things that didn't sit well with the board. He suggested too much was being spent on something that stepped on someone's toes on a job given to family or friends, he criticized pay or consulting fees, there's any number of things.

If it was something the new pastor had done it would have been out, there would be no reason for the board to protect him and every reason to clear themselves.

A new pastor is under so many pressures to do as the existing powers wish that they can't be counted. If he was gotten rid of due to something he didn't agree with he wouldn't have even been able to say anything for fear of having six weeks severance clipped out from under him. Can you imagine the financial pressure he would have been under with a family and no income?

The congregation is owed a full explanation of what didn't fit that is backed by the new pastor, simply to bolster your faith in that board.

It stinks... badly

I would have asked the new guy for a confidential explanation, and chances are I'd have gotten it as people trust me with confidences. I'd have found a way to do something if there was something wrong with the board.

Yeah the elders "could" have been trying to protect him, but 9/10 times they are protecting themselves with actions like that.

In Shreveport I saw a situation where an elder had tried to pressure a new pastor's young wife into an affair, he used job security and termination as a threat. When that blew up it was amazing to see how many of the congregation "believed" the old goat and "believed" that the new pastor was the liar. And by the way it wasn't the first time the elder had been involved in an impropriety either, yet the nature of a church is to believe in the elders.

What chance does the new guy have if he accuses the elders of anything? Not much.

Two reasons I am not a Pastor:
1) Church leadership/church boards
2) I never learned to play golf

Thanks Allheart for the update. I messaged you. This makes some sense that a young pastor would get in this trouble. It may be God giving him a learning experience. Part of a pastor is submitting to senior pastor. I think he wanted to run the show. I've seen that before.

I got fed up with a Southern style Baptist minister that had a seriously extravagant lifestyle in one of the poorer congregations you'd ever want to see.

I think it was the black early 70's Chrysler Imperial that was the capper, or maybe it was his wife displaying a ton of expensive jewelry, and then imploring the congregation to dig deeper to where it hurt as being the path to salvation...

The whole thing sucked.

Since the donations went directly to this POS's pocket, I made the observation pretty openly that anyone experiencing any sort of cash crisis didn't need to worry about the good reverend missing any meals because they took care of their families first.

This is a reverend that did not like me, he made it fairly clear I wasn't welcome. He made a statement to me that the lord provides well for those that do the lord's work or some such self righteous BS. I made a little speech to the congregation on my way out about greed and selfishness. My friend the pastor lost about 3/4's of his flock due to a pretty good assessment of how much money it took him to live like he did.

I'm glad I have no "leadership" but Christ.

I cannot believe that you would put it to the fact that he his a "young pastor" and that "God gives him a learning experience"!

The story stinks purely and simply and the mighty God had nothing to do with it.

If only you would open your eyes, intelligence, sensitivity and stop pinching your nose, the evidence would jump at you.

It is painful to see otherwise reasonable people suspending all critical sense, all judgement and speaking like a prayer mill.

There is hope for people in that situation: the damage is reversible, provided they listen to Christ teachings (New Testament) and stop listening to the forked tongue of the church.

Speaking very general here but more often than not, there is so much more to these issues than most see on the surface. Sounds like that may be the case here.

Paraphrased somewhat from Prov 25. It's the glory of kings to search out a matter. But it's the glory of God to cover them up.

Even when a pastor/board have to deal with something they'd just rather leave in private, the congregation isn't happy until they know every sordid little detail.

By the time it escalates to the point that the pastor has to go over it with the congregation, a lot of damage can be done.

The problem starts when the "leadership" decides they have the right to keep it to themselves. They don't have that right.

The associate pastor wants things kept quiet. When talking with the leadership they said part of them would love to share all the details but they agreed with the associate pastor to keep the details of the specific incidents quiet out of respect for him and his family.

The leadership and the associate pastor mutually agreed that they would not release specific details so that it would not get ugly.

I don't think this was the right path to take though. Because now it leaves many questioning what really happened.

If both parties agree to this then both parties separate ways on a mutual basis. However if the leaving party is going to throw accusations at the employer then the employer has the right and obligation to share the details to show they acted in an upright manner.

Overall this was just a crappy.

I trust my leadership 100%. They are not deceptive, they are not liars, they are not doing the devils work. BUT they did make mistakes, they didn't handle this the best way. They are not trained managers that have dealt with numerous problem employee's. This is the church's first full time hire in 20 yrs.



This is a learning experience on both sides. The church leadership messed up big time. The young pastor also has some major flaws in his character that he is unwilling to accept and change.

The church tried to correct his behaviour and he was unresponsive and resistant to changing his ways.

I can ensure you I didn't just take some sweet talk from my elders. There was no sweet talk in the meeting I was in.

They are not hiding something worse though. There was no gross misconduct that took place.

The leadership would not lie to hide a sinner

Also if the young pastor did do something wrong he would just keep quiet and move on so no one found out.

I'm easily distracted

it's hard for me to worship, seek guidance or cleanse my heart and repent for my many sins whilst listening to folks singing, looking at what folks are wearing, listening to someone else tell me how he's interpreted scripture and deciding how much is enough when they pass the plate around.


tis easier for me to find my maker in the place he created, not a building men built whether they believe they were guided by God to do so or not.

It's just a weakness on my part, I suppose. But I much prefer to speak and listen to God one on one.

This topic is typical of church talk and church affairs: dripping with lies and hypocrisy on one side and gullibility and self delusion on the other.

This is really painful to read, but obviously the victims consent to their sacrifice and will ask for more...

As a member of the clergy, it saddens me that so many here have such a negative view of church and the shepherds that it calls to service, ministry, and leadership.

Clearly the church catholic has much to take to cross...

Therein lies the problem. They are called by the church and not by God.

No, therein lies the solution. Ministers are held accountable to both.

2legit,
Sounds as if you are maturing as a Christian and can see the vanity of all this. Rock bands, replacing the altar with a stage for the preacher to prance around on and draw attention to himself, and the constant request for money to build a bigger building etc and not enough quiet time to reflect and pray, you then have to ask yourself, does this glorify God or the preacher. You need to find a more traditional church setting. They are out there you just have to look, put away your prejudices and your pre conceived ideas about Christian worship, and see where God takes you. You may wish to read the early church fathers, such as St Augustine, to help you make a decision.
God bless you on your search for the truth.

I find myself of the same mind at times. It doesn't help that I am very independent and a bit of a loner.

Ah well, God knows that I am a 'work in progress'.

99% of them give the rest a bad name. They are thieves, liars, and dirt bags.

Gary F, thank you for the kind words.

but I'm more on a circular path, I was raised by an old country preacher in part, my maternal grandfather.

watched him grow a little town church into quite a pretty big deal, for the size town it was in. It was called Calvary Baptist church and that's where I'm still counted as a member. They had Pops funeral service there, they had to put speakers outside as the now medium sized church couldn't hold all those in attendance for his funeral services. Catholics, Southern Baptists, heck probably about every practicing faith had folks there.

In my ignorance of youth, I thought they were honoring my grandfather, but I've come to the realization though many thought they were paying respects to the man, what they were truly paying respect to was a man that walked one of the straightest paths of God's teachings. Was he without fault or even sin? No, no man is.

But he endeavored to live his life as the Bible teaches and was very successful at doing so, which in turn led to success for him in other areas of life, such as finances and financial planning.

But one day he walked away from the church and retired, still preached, but in the little humble country churches he'd attended as a youth. I don't believe he ever got very confused at to whom he was serving.

if you wanted to hear Pops preach, you'd best show up on Sunday, it was always hard on him, harder than physical work we did on the farm often. The rest of the week he practiced do as I say, by living a life full of humor, wit, generosity, hard work and love.

my path has been wide and very circular, it's an embarrassment to have to admit with the advantage I had to spend so much time with him that I had to live so long to realize he was so very wise and I was so very dumb. I think I always knew he was correct, but I just had to take my walk on the wild side.

it would be hard to convey in words here just how unique he was as a man.

it will have to suffice, I hope, that if I am ever able to become 3 times better than I am when I'm at my best, I'll never be half the man he ever was even at his lowest.

God has blessed me in so many ways, even when I strayed, and I realize now when I wasn't smart enough to ask for his help in prayer as to how to live my life, there were folks praying for my blessings.

Pops loved God, and Pops loved me too, ever so much, he was always looking out for me when I wasn't smart enough to look out for myself. And I truly know he asked the one he served so well, to love and protect me and give me blessings.

I don't like to post a lot on the religious or spiritual threads, there's many a fellow that I respect and like on this site that feel different about spiritual matters.

And I understand the skepticism, the doubt and the feeling of betrayal some folks feel by practicing Christians.

but I've seen first hand what God does in lives and most particularly one life, where you open your heart and give your will to him. Great things do indeed happen.

I'm a poor witness for my maker, I'm the dumbest of the dumb, I saw the miracle of reading scripture, and a calm centered peace that comes from living your life by the teachings.

and yet for many, many years I did not follow.

the only purpose I serve is probably to show how merciful God can be when one of his true servants really loves him.

My life has been blessed beyond my dreams.

thank you God and thank you Pop's for looking out for me, I'm trying to be a better man and a better student these days.