I need some help with pricing and real value of an absolute mint Springfield Armory Garand Sniper Rifle. It was a gift to a local businessman from a General from New Jersey after WWII. It was packed in cosmoline and only recently taken and assembled with all of the components that came with the rifle. It is serial #386xxx which places it as an October 1941 issue. Has a mint M84 Sniper Scope and Mount, Cheek Pad, Flash Hider (rare), and Cleaning Kit in the buttstock. Again, it is unfired and looks like the day it left the armory.
My opportunity to take the buck of my life now presented itself, I was as nervous as a small nun at a penguin shoot.
Would usually say a gun is only worth what someone will pay for it! but it's hard to put a price on history. Good luck
The .270 is the greatest hunting catridge ever designed. To dispute this fact is to only justify our loonieism in owning and hunting with inferior cartridges.
that would probly be a question for the guys over at snipercentral.com
Seems we constantly hear about how Social Security is going to run out of money but we never hear about welfare or food stamps running out of money. What's interesting is the first group WORKED for their money but the other group didn't.
Alot of serious Garand Collectors on the CMP forums. Have seen nice M1C and D's supposedly new/unfired bring $6K and beyond on their auctions. So with some history, accessories and absolute new could be worth a good chunk o change!
I am not sure if they would be able to help without seeing it but I would give CMP store a call. Might be worth a drive over there in Ohio. Phone #888-267-0796
USE ENOUGH GUN (Ruark) and YOU CAN'T EVER HAVE TOO MANY (me)
Garands are such a hot collectible these days and there is so much to know that it would be difficult to even give a range.
Because the rarer variants M1D, MC1, Type 1 NM are getting up there in price, there are folks putting left over part together to assemble their own. Of course these are no more valuable than the sum of the parts.
Where the value comes into these is if there is documentation that it was actually recorded as an M1D in the CMP's or other recognized databases.
If you are fairly certain the serial number will check out, you might consider sending the rifle in to Scott Duff (http://www.scott-duff.com/to have him do an appraisal.
What you describe sounds like a nice rifle with a nice story behind it, but I don't know any that would pay the dollar verified M1D's are getting without documentation. The 1941 date might be the date the receiver was produced, but M1D's weren't produced until a few years later. Probably pulled back into the arsenal and rebuilt as a D.
Seems like an item for auction if you can prove and have authentication that the rifle is original production of the era and was never issued. Very much a memorabilia item of historical nature rather than something a shooter would buy to shoot. imho
Is it unfired or arsenal refinished as are nearly all of them? Does it have it's original barrel or a new one installed prior to packing it up as do most. Does it have all the early features?
"If what I say offends you, you should hear what I don't say."
Would have to be a "D". M1C's are all in a well documented serial range, and its in the mid-3-million range. For a D sniper to be legit , it would also have to have a drawing number on the barrel that included "555". What I mean is, under the rear handguard, the barrel has the original drawing/assembly ID number stamped into it. As I recall, its a long number, like 8 or 9 digits long, but inside that number are three 5's. Example: 243555721
If the barrel hasn't got these numbers, its a put-together. Check it out & let us know, please. This DIRECTLY affects value.
Thanks to all! I am teaching fire school in Texas and gun is waiting for me when I get back. I left him a deposit and the deal is done. Just hoping I made a good buy. This gentleman is in his 80's, very wealthy and no reason to embelish. Now, that does not mean squat until I check all of this out as my main collection interest is Ruger No. 1 rifles, etc.
I was actually picking up some Unertl Scopes I bought from him when he took me to a room in his downstairs that was in effect a vault with leaded glass showcases on the walls. I looked at the gun but did not handle it as he detailed everything about how it left the hands of the general, and how he came into possession of it. It was in cosmoline for over forty years before he decided to have the local gunsmith that was a former army ordnance officer clean it. It was that gentleman that told him he had a sniper rifle that was both rare and valuable.
I am afraid to say too much in the event it isn't what it was described to me as, and worse yet if it is the dilemna comes as to whether to keep it, or find a home for it where it would get proper notarity.
I will eventually post photos as soon as I get it home and do some authenticating and contacting of the experts mentioned here. Also, thank you to those that have PM'd me as there definitely are a couple that do not seem to have a hidden agenda and are trying to assist me in authenticating the gun.
My opportunity to take the buck of my life now presented itself, I was as nervous as a small nun at a penguin shoot.
Should you purchase it you should get a letter from the owner stating the provenance of the gun, this will help establish its authenticity should you decide to sell it eventually.
drover
223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
24hourcampfire.com - The site where there is a problem for every solution.
My intentions were good with my response and I expected nothing in return until I read this last post and "Unertl scopes", NOW I an approaching the 'parasite' mentality as I have been looking for one for my rimfire
Pay up dude....prefer 15X but 20X would be nice, also a dot but that is negotiable!!!! Please let me know what you are sending and when
Oh, and congrats on the Garand and hope it is what you think.
OK - Here is an update to my purchase of the M1D Sniper rifle according to a document that was in an envelope date 12-18-07.
QUOTING THE LETTER "This 'MID' Sniper has an original Military 'SA 6-52' marked and dated 'M1D' sniper barrel assembly and as all 'M1D' Sniper Rifles are Arsenal built out of existing M1 Garands it is difficult to qualify the originality without Provenance, Sales Paper or Documentation. These were originally sold through the DCM or CMP programs and came with all accessories usually in unissued condition and in Arsenal shipping boxes.
As to this particular specimen I have found the following;
1. This 'M1D' barrel is mint and rated 100% original finish with mint bore and throat gauging only a 2, (*Do not know the head spacing of installed barrel).
2. Its very early WWII receiver with the '3860xx' serial number puts is manufacture appx Late 1941. The receiver appears to be original including 99% original 1941 Springfield Armory Factory metal finish, its matching period '2SA' revisioned numbered bolt and '3SA' revision numbered un-cut/never modified operating rod with these too having 99-100% original 1941 finish. Though the rear sight knobs have been upgraded with post WWII variation, all the receiver internals appear to be of original 1941 manufacture. The center barrel band and its 'solid pin' are also of early WWII era manufacture again retaining 100% of original Armory Factory metal finish. The gas cylinder assembly, front sight assembly including the sight screw cap and early 'single slot' gas plug are also original 1941 period more than likely off of the same original late 1941 Springfield Armory Rifle. The complete trigger housing is of Winchester WWII manufacture and all matching "WRA" with 100% original finish and again out of an original WWII Wicnester M1 Garand.
My opinion based upon what is see is that this is indeed a scarce late 1941 Springfield Armory M1 Garand that was used to build the current 'M1D' Sniper and would have a value of <$xxxx-xxxxx> range today. A number of these early 1941 M1 Garands were sent to Briton in 1941/42 on Lend Lease and came back into the USA appx 1950's/60's and known as "British Proof" M1 Garands in today's collector circles. The stock is in remarkably good concidition and could have been an armory stock that had never seen service based upon other wood furniture. I did not remove the factory leather cheek piece to inspect for arsenal markings. The butt plate is of WWII manufacture and has the original WWII cleaning pieces in its butt trap.
In addition to the estimated value of the Sniper Rifle itself, you may add the values of the following items as well to realise the total value of the unit.
Original Era WWII butt tool kit appx $xx-xxx
Original "MRT July 1952" marked and dated web sling is original and mint with its value appx $xxx-xxx
Original leather sniper cheek piece is "MRT 1-52" and is an original military part with appx value $xxx-xxx
Original "M-37" prong type flash hider is original and mint and correctly dated to that of the sniper rifle with appx value $xxx-xxx
Original "M-2" cone type early Springfield flash hider is original and mint and correctly date to thea tof the sniper rifle with appx value $xxx-xxx
The "M1D" Scope Mount is original with slight wear on its hinge that does not impair function or detract from overall quality of this fine specimen and is valued at appx $xxx-xxx
The M-84 Scope is original with excellent optics, adjustments, and retains original doors. The rear rubber eyepiece is original as is the refurbished but original metal sliding front sunshade. Its appx value is $xxx-xxxx
Again, if you could provide a letter of Provenance this could add significant value or place it as a valued museum quality piece. I have inspected thousands of M1 Garands and hundreds of sniper rifles and this by far is one of the most unique and well preserved specimens I have seen.
My opportunity to take the buck of my life now presented itself, I was as nervous as a small nun at a penguin shoot.
Now, having provided the above all I can add is this. The gentleman I purchased this from was an avid trapshooter from the central Illinois area and set a world record for 16 yd handicap in the late 1960's through early 1970's with an average score of over 99+. He shot trap with the plant manager of the Ford Motors Assembly Plant in Chicago IL. That particular gentleman was a high ranking Ford employee during the WWII era and retired as plant manager of the Chicago facility in the late 1960's. Supposedly he was given the M1D sniper rifle by a general from New Jersey as a gift. I am unsure as to the time period. When the Ford plant manager retired and was ready to move to Arizona he gifted the gun to "Jim", who I recently purchased the rifle from. I was just with Jim yesterday and asked him about the Ford employee who is deceased, if there were any way of tracking the origin of the gun. He presented me with a copy of the letter I shared in the previous post as he told me the legend of the gun died when his friend in Arizona died as he himself had never found it important to validate the gun until he tried in 2007.
My opportunity to take the buck of my life now presented itself, I was as nervous as a small nun at a penguin shoot.