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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,512 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,512 Likes: 1 |
Unimpressed at 6.5#s...5.5 would be worth looking at.
Kinda like car companies raving about their 38 mpg cars in 2012 when 50 mpg was around 30 years ago.
Where's the advancement for Remington?
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 2 |
My Kimber 84L MT weigh's 6lb's 10oz's scoped with sling and 4 rounds.
I paid $1050 for the rifle and it shoots great.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10 |
The McM Edge stock is in a whole different league than the Kimber Montana stock. Can't compare them.
I'll take a 700/Edge over a Montana any day.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 2 |
The McM Edge stock is in a whole different league than the Kimber Montana stock. Can't compare them.
Utter Bull Chit. I've had both. The Kimber is a hand-laid fiberglass stock with pillars. You need to get a clue if that's possible.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10 |
McMillan Edge is hands down the best thing going for a hard use mountain rifle, that will last you through countless mountain hunts in a harsh environment and conditions. I give the Kimber Mt stock a slight Edge over the B&C Ti stocks, but not by much.
Both the production Kimber and the B&C stocks are worth about $125 to $150, and even that is a bit much, IMO. And I've had, hunted, and beat the snot out of all 3 stocks. Edge by a mile when it comes to long term durability, stiffness, and fit/finish.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
Okay Calvin, I'll take your word for it, but I'd like a few "for instances" regarding the B&C and Kimber MT. The only McMillan I have any experience with is an Army HTG and that thing had the ergs of something DeSade would design and was a boat anchor for sure. The MT stock is stiff, the B&C not so much I've noticed. The fore end needs to be a lot stiffer to make me happy.
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 792
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 792 |
I don't like the ergos of a Kimber Montana stock, it just does not work for me. In fact I got rid of the stock off my 243 Montana and its going to have a MPI stock put on it.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
I don't like the ergos of a Kimber Montana stock, it just does not work for me. In fact I got rid of the stock off my 243 Montana and its going to have a MPI stock put on it. Now that just goes to show we ain't all the same. The stock on the MT is the only reason I haven't sold the one I have. I'll bet you like that B&C that is on the Weatherby UL's. I hated that stock so much I sold a good rifle.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,831
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,831 |
Having owned McM edge for a rem model 7 and a Kimber Montana I prefer the Montana regardless of if it is a cheaper stock. I just like it better and for any of us that's all that matters.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277 |
Personally I feel you're working in a very good direction for this. I have as similar rig in a .260 and it's a pure joy to run.
I even have a 2-8 Leo on it with a M1 on top. It works very well, if one wanted to go a bit lighter and liked the B&C concept then I'd go with a 6x36 Leo with dotz. That'd save you a couple maybe.
I'd say rock on with your project, and he can get to filling up some arks.
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 2 |
McMillan Edge is hands down the best thing going for a hard use mountain rifle, that will last you through countless mountain hunts in a harsh environment and conditions. I give the Kimber Mt stock a slight Edge over the B&C Ti stocks, but not by much.
Both the production Kimber and the B&C stocks are worth about $125 to $150, and even that is a bit much, IMO. And I've had, hunted, and beat the snot out of all 3 stocks. Edge by a mile when it comes to long term durability, stiffness, and fit/finish. You couldn't buy a clue. The B&C is a chopped glass stock and is junk. The Kimber is a laid stock ala McMillan, Bansner, et al. The Edge has a laid shell but a different fill. Dat's it. Considering you don't know the difference between chopped and laid glass, you're WAG in public is funny.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10 |
If a Costa Rican stock floats your boat, then have at it. I've had them all, and I know that McMillan is head and shoulders above anything on the market as far as stocks go.
Is the Kimber Montana a good all around package for hunting? Sure. One of the better production rifles out there. I sold one of the most accurate ones around. I've never seen guys post pics of groups of what mine would do. But I suffered no inflated love affair for a $800 production rifle.
BTW, I've attended and graduated from the military school of advanced composites in Pensacola FL. Composites was my thing, as an a&p mechanic in the service. I'm sure if I'd have taken a career of dunking fries I'd understand more.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,716 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,716 Likes: 1 |
I've done a bit of rooting around (so to speak) in two bansners and one mcmillan. I fixed a Winchester bansner that cracked at the recoil lug, converted a mauser Bansner to blind bottom metal, and hogged out a pristine KS ADL mountain rifle stock for BDL bottom metal (before I had a clue - that stands alone as my Biggest Rifle Regret).
The bansners appear to have lots of epoxy resin and not a great deal of cloth in the skin. The opposite was true of the McMillan.
Not that this has anything to do with the topic at hand. I do know that a ti sits nicely in a 25-oz KS ADL short action stock.
Since sourcing MR barrels and/or complete rifles is a bit of a sketchy game (to me, anyway), I'd send a ratty blued 700 LA to IT&D for a new SS MR contoured douglas in 270 or 30-06 or 308, put it in a TI takeoff or KS or edge (depending on luck and budget) and do your best to convince him that this agglomeration of parts is better than any factory hunting rifle.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 2
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,287 Likes: 2 |
If a Costa Rican stock floats your boat, then have at it. I've had them all, and I know that McMillan is head and shoulders above anything on the market as far as stocks go. "Head and Shoulders above anything"... that's ridiculous. Because you say so? You have nothing to back that up, apart from "I went to composites school!" Laughable. You is a gradgiate, yet you compare a Hand-Laid Monocoupe stock (Kimber) to a Chopped Glass Stock (B&C). You're not an expert, you're an idiot. You know as much about stocks as you do about hunting Montana or what I do for a living... which is to say next to nothing. Truth of the matter is it doesn't matter if the stock was made in Costa Rica... quality is quality. Laying up fiberglass is a relatively easy, though time consuming thing to do. If the Kimber was made in the USA its price would be right there with McMillan ($550+), which would put the Kimber rifle well out of its $1100 price range. Though I have no way to prove it, I'm of the opinion because the Edge filled stocks are so stiff, they transmit recoil more than a slightly more flexible stock like the Bansner or Kimber (I actually rate the build quality of the Kimber above the Bansner). That's the compromise of making an overly stiff stock. Yeah, I've had B&C, Bansner, Kimber and McMillan Edge stocks. And yeah I have hunted them all, as well as built around them. The McMillan Edge stocks are very good stuff. But not "head and shoulders" above everything else. Being a composites expert you should know all builds bring a set of compromises weighted one way or another. Here ya go... here's the cross section of a Kimber stock... look like "chopped glass" to you Mr. Composites Expert?
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,483 Likes: 10 |
Brad, The reality is that despite your claims that I'm an idiot, I've been educated in composites beyond what your internet searching can teach you. BTW, what prompted you to cut the stock on the Kimber? Please don't tell me you took the picture off the internet... The Kimber Montana is a very good $800 production rifle, and can be used fine all over NA in a variety of hunting situations. I'm glad Kimber outsourced it's stocks to Costa Rica too, to help keep costs down so you can afford to have 11 or 13 of them in your safe. But, as far as the stocks go, they can't, won't, and never will hang with the McM Edge or the McM Swirly. The McM Edge is head and shoulders above any stock I've seen on a production rifle. Mountain hunts: Chopped Glass: Slightly better, but not by much: Head and Shoulders above the rest:
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
Brad, why do you wanna pick on Calvin man? I think I'll go out to my shop now and bandsaw my B&C stock into little pieces.
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,831
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,831 |
I am not nearly refined in the way of stocks as either of you. I like the MCM in my model 7, the B&c on my browning ti, and whatever came on my Kimber. But not nearly astute enough to say one is WAY better than the other. I guess it's a bit of a blessing really that keeps more coin in my pocket.
What makes one way better than the other for either of you? Educate us less in the know.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 28,277 |
The way I see it's a lot of SG (aka stock gack), all of them will do well and then some. I'm talking Ti take offs McMillans and the stock that comes on the Montana.
Find one that fits the way you like and go forth and fill some arks...grin
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,512 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,512 Likes: 1 |
If a Costa Rican stock floats your boat, then have at it. I've had them all, and I know that McMillan is head and shoulders above anything on the market as far as stocks go. "Head and Shoulders above anything"... that's ridiculous. Because you say so? You have nothing to back that up, apart from "I went to composites school!" Laughable. You is a gradgiate, yet you compare a Hand-Laid Monocoupe stock (Kimber) to a Chopped Glass Stock (B&C). You're not an expert, you're an idiot. WTF Dude? Can't disagree without calling the guy an idiot? I think everyone knows the idiot here now....
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
Well, in Brads' defense Calvin has uttered an uncharitable thing or two about Brad, but he's minding his manners in this thread and I wish Brad would as well. I've been known to get belligerent in a thread or two on the Fire myself but I do really try to behave in this forum 'cause there are some really great guys here that I look up to.
Last edited by Take_a_knee; 03/12/12. Reason: spellin'
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