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It's been a while since I read Undaunted Courage, but I don't think you're quite right about how the diet and sickness stuff happened on the L&C expedition. I'm thinking I remember some pretty significant nutrition related illnesses. Might have been starvation more than anything. Also, I think I remember that most of their diet after they got to the Rockies was provided by Indians, not by hunting activities. Seems like camas root was a big staple for months at a time on the west side of the Continental Divide.
To a large extent, folks were just tougher then. They bulled their way through stuff and died early as a result.
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Campfire Ranger
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No doubt tougher. Just reviewed and no serious illness, malnutrition due to diet.
As stated the Indians did provided some foods towards the end of the expedition. My point is they survived under incredibly difficult physical execise every day on basically a diet of game meat.
Thought this was interesting
EXPEDITION CUISINE: FEAST OR FAMINE
The story of the expedition's diet may not be pleasant for
those who have queasy stomachs. Game was plentiful dur-
ing good times and each man ate as much as nine pounds
of meat per day; that's 36 quarter-pounders on today's
scale! Both Lewis and Clark wrote that without the excel-
lent skills of Drouillard, the expedition's best hunter, they
might not have survived. Lewis wrote:
[I]t requires 4 deer, an Elk, and a deer,
or one buffaloe, to supply us plentifully for 24 hours.
This gives us some idea of how they must have exerted
themselves as they trudged along the way.
Food was scarce so often that they ate horses and even
dogs. In the worst times, they resorted to eating roots, rot-
ten elk, and candles made from animal-fat. Whiskey must
have helped soothe their ails along the way until they ran
out at the Great Falls on the Fourth of July 1805.
As they emerged from the Bitterroot Mountains, they
met the Nez Perce Indians who offered them salmon and
camas roots. The digestive systems of the expedition
members were not accustomed to handling these types of
foods, and they became violently ill
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Campfire Oracle
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How does one measure BMI and fat % at home?
BMI calculator http://www.nhlbisupport.com/bmi/
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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No one died on Shackelton Endurance expedition.
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To the ones that do the protein shakes, are y'all just mixing supplement powder with a drink, or something else?
I use the ON powder but looking for something with a little more substance to it.
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Campfire Outfitter
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To the ones that do the protein shakes, are y'all just mixing supplement powder with a drink, or something else?
I use the ON powder but looking for something with a little more substance to it. Two scoops of Cytosport Cytogainer in a pint of milk, a TBSP of GNC soy lecithin, a heaping TBSP of flaxseed meal, a shot of GNC liquid B-complex all goes in a Tupperware shaker bottle at around 5pm every day. I eat a dozen or so almonds with it. I eat the same thing living out of a pack, using Nido for the milk.
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I throw forzen berries from Costco, sometimes plain greek yogurt, ground flax seed, cut up apple into a blender with protein powder and water.
I sometimes put walnuts, almonds into a coffee grinder then into the shake
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No one died on Shackelton Endurance expedition. But they had plenty of powders and shakes to go with the seal blubber.
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No one died on Shackelton Endurance expedition. But they had plenty of powders and shakes to go with the seal blubber. Yes 
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Smokepole has added something to this that I've personally found to be of value.... Stop right there, that guy knows his sh**.
A wise man is frequently humbled.
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New Member
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Ammino acids are proteins not fats. Glucose and fats are consumed all the time by the body unless it's straved for oxygen. Then it burns glucose only.
If the blood sugar level falls, the consumption of fats also decreases. E Eremicus, I bolded "fatty acids" not amino acids. And, if blood sugar falls, the pancreas will release glucagon which will stimulate the liver to release an enzyme lipase to break triglycerides into glycerol and free fatty acids for use in metabolism (lipolysis). Normally fatty acids are needed for metabolism of steroid dependent cells, such as those cells that produce sex hormones. Other hormones are fat based too. But, I'm not going to list them all. But, to maintain homeostasis, the body will generate the process off gluconeogenesis when blood sugar falls and glycogen stores are insufficient. The body must do this to protect the central nervous system which is completely glucose dependent. And does not require insulin. Blood sugar must stay at least 70 mg/dl for proper nervous cell function. If the blood sugar drops too low, the central nervous system will collapse. So, in reality, if blood sugar falls, fat metabolism increases. This is how we lose weight. Our bodies break down fat for fuel so our central nervous system doesn't die. I'm not saying it doesn't break down protein. It does, but with exercise, the muscle cells are stimulated and more fat will break down instead of protein. But, we have to be careful not to work the muscles too hard, or they'll break down from trauma and cause a person to go into rhabdomyolosis and acute kidney failure. It's all about cellular metabolism, cellular respiration and the generation of adenosine triphosphate. It's how the krebs cycle works. I don't advocate eliminating all carbs. They're brain food! (And I'd worry about ketoacidosis.) But, by reducing carb intake, the body will break down fat to feed it.
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Two scoops of Cytosport Cytogainer in a pint of milk, a TBSP of GNC soy lecithin, a heaping TBSP of flaxseed meal, a shot of GNC liquid B-complex all goes in a Tupperware shaker bottle at around 5pm every day. I eat a dozen or so almonds with it. I eat the same thing living out of a pack, using Nido for the milk. Dang, that's quite the ingredients. 5pm? Is that what you eat for supper?
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No, I usually eat again at 8pm or a bit later. I typically exercise either before the shake or before supper.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Ammino acids are proteins not fats. Glucose and fats are consumed all the time by the body unless it's straved for oxygen. Then it burns glucose only.
If the blood sugar level falls, the consumption of fats also decreases. E Eremicus, I bolded "fatty acids" not amino acids. And, if blood sugar falls, the pancreas will release glucagon which will stimulate the liver to release an enzyme lipase to break triglycerides into glycerol and free fatty acids for use in metabolism (lipolysis). Normally fatty acids are needed for metabolism of steroid dependent cells, such as those cells that produce sex hormones. Other hormones are fat based too. But, I'm not going to list them all. But, to maintain homeostasis, the body will generate the process off gluconeogenesis when blood sugar falls and glycogen stores are insufficient. The body must do this to protect the central nervous system which is completely glucose dependent. And does not require insulin. Blood sugar must stay at least 70 mg/dl for proper nervous cell function. If the blood sugar drops too low, the central nervous system will collapse. So, in reality, if blood sugar falls, fat metabolism increases. This is how we lose weight. Our bodies break down fat for fuel so our central nervous system doesn't die. I'm not saying it doesn't break down protein. It does, but with exercise, the muscle cells are stimulated and more fat will break down instead of protein. But, we have to be careful not to work the muscles too hard, or they'll break down from trauma and cause a person to go into rhabdomyolosis and acute kidney failure. It's all about cellular metabolism, cellular respiration and the generation of adenosine triphosphate. It's how the krebs cycle works. I don't advocate eliminating all carbs. They're brain food! (And I'd worry about ketoacidosis.) But, by reducing carb intake, the body will break down fat to feed it. I believe have cellular metabolism dialed in. You left out the nasty taste in your mouth from all those ketones. Its called welcome to SERE school. I remember hearing Dr. Sears say that we only made enough ATP to last for ten seconds or so.
Last edited by Take_a_knee; 03/15/12. Reason: spellin'
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2003
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To the ones that do the protein shakes, are y'all just mixing supplement powder with a drink, or something else?
I use the ON powder but looking for something with a little more substance to it. Two scoops of Cytosport Cytogainer in a pint of milk, a TBSP of GNC soy lecithin, a heaping TBSP of flaxseed meal, a shot of GNC liquid B-complex all goes in a Tupperware shaker bottle at around 5pm every day. I eat a dozen or so almonds with it. I eat the same thing living out of a pack, using Nido for the milk. Do you have to hold your nose to choke that down or is it tolerable?
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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I like it, quite tolerable
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Best way to find out what way is best .....
Keep a food log.
Get a glucose meter.
Test your blood before a meal and again two hours after, you will see what raises your glucose and what doesnt, you will also see what effect your workouts have on your glucose as well.
"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe."
- Abraham Lincoln, the Rail Splitter from Illinois.
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Campfire Ranger
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Measuring accurately one's percentage of body fat can only be done with complicated equipment and a large tank of water, etc.
Second best way is to simply look at yourself in the mirror with your clothes off. Most of your fat stores are right there to see. E
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New Member
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I believe have cellular metabolism dialed in. You left out the nasty taste in your mouth from all those ketones. Its called welcome to SERE school.
I remember hearing Dr. Sears say that we only made enough ATP to last for ten seconds or so. LOL. Those darn nasty ketones! I did make a mention of ketoacidosis, but I did leave out about that beautiful breathy aroma. I'm female... no opportunity to attend SERE school. The worst I ever had was when I was training with some marines for a few months. My soft Navy butt wasn't used to all that PT and the lactic acid made me miserable. WMs are tough! Interesting. I don't ever remember hearing about how long a cell's ATP is good for. That must be a generalization. Because I would think a sperm cell needs way more than 10 seconds to penetrate an oocyte. Good discussion.
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