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French riots rage despite warning

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4411192.stm


Saturday night's count of car burnings is the highest yet
France has suffered its heaviest riot damage yet as warnings of tough prison sentences failed to deter arsonists.
Police reported 1,295 vehicle burnings and made 312 arrests as unrest in African and Arab communities spread to Strasbourg, Toulouse and Nantes.

On the 10th consecutive night of riots, four cars were torched on Place de la Republique in central Paris along with others in the central 17th District.

Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy had warned of stiff jail sentences.

In some areas of Paris, night buses were cancelled as a precaution.

What I want from the authorities... are words of peace

Dilil Boubakeur
Head of Paris mosque


Contrasts of riot-hit town

Police helicopters patrolled the skies over the capital, attempting to pursue and identify those responsible for the attacks.

Unrest began after the deaths of two youths in the rundown Paris suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois on 27 October, who were accidentally electrocuted at an electricity sub-station after reportedly fleeing police.


Map of main flashpoints
The northern town of Evreux in Normandy saw some of the worst unrest overnight with at least 30 cars burned along with three shops, the local authorities said.

A school was also petrol-bombed in the town while four police officers were injured in clashes with youths, some of them reportedly wielding baseball bats.

Saturday night's violence was the worst reported to date:


A McDonald's was rammed by a car and almost completely burnt out in Corbeil-Essonnes, south of Paris

Five classrooms of a nursery in Grigny, south of Paris, were destroyed by fire while a primary school was also slightly damaged

A recycling facility was attacked in the Essone area near Paris, with 800 sq m of paper going up in flames and at least 35 vehicles torched

In Drancy, north-east of Paris, two teenagers were caught and handed over to police after they tried to set fire to a lorry.

Marches

Earlier on Saturday hundreds of people joined marches in Paris suburbs to protest against the violence.




Residents give their views

In Aulnay-sous-Bois, which has seen some of the worst of the rioting, residents walked past burnt out vehicles and buildings with banners reading "No to violence" and "Yes to dialogue".

Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin met eight key ministers and the head of the Paris mosque, Dalil Boubakeur.

After the meeting, Mr Boubakeur urged a change in tone from the government.

"What I want from the authorities, from Mr Nicolas Sarkozy, the prime minister and senior officials are words of peace," he said.

Mr de Villepin has been holding a series of meetings with public figures and ordinary people from the affected areas as he seeks an end to the crisis.

Mr Sarkozy's much-quoted description of urban vandals as "rabble" (racaille) a few days before the riots began is said by many to have already created tension.

Reports of a police tear gas grenade hitting a mosque during the riots further inflamed feelings.


PARIS RIOTS

Clichy-sous-Bois: Two teenagers die in electricity sub-station on 27 October. Successive nights of rioting follow rumours they were fleeing police. A number of people arrested or injured.
Aulnay-sous-Bois: A flashpoint after violence spread from Clichy. Shots fired at police and cars and shops set ablaze. Further trouble in nearby suburbs, with more shots fired at police.
Elsewhere in France: From 3 November, violence spreads to other major cities like Dijon, Marseille, Nice and Strasbourg.


Bill Tibbe

Hi, Bill. Tell me about your thread title. Are you referring to the riots or the Muslims? It seems to me that we've got/had both here already.

In my intermediate French class about a week ago the cultural reading that we discussed in class talked about the various working-class neighborhoods that surround Paris, their tendency to be socialist/communist ("la ceinture rouge," the red belt), the HLM ("habitations � loyer mod�r�," low income housing projects), and the many immigrants that are there. The reading itself was from the 90s.

At the base of it, people are people the world over and react to situations in somewhat predictable ways... be it Paris, Detroit, or Los Angeles...

B'sW

Hi Penny:

Both !. Riots and immigrants. Our's will be Mexicans reclaiming the Southwest.

Just the other day my daughter was lamenting, by E-mail, that Paris is just the opposite of the USA. Here all of the rich people live outside, in the suburbs and country. In Paris all of the rich people live downtown and the low class out "around" Paris. Two of her aunts live in the outskirts. In one's neighborhood there are only 3 white families left. The other just moved from near Orly airport. They had to go 40 kilometes out to find a suitable place.

Overnight, last night, the riots have now moved into Paris center. That's where my daughter lives.

The riots may have started in the outskirts of Paris but they have spread all over the country and seem to be spreading more. It's just far, far, too exagerated and sustained to have been over a couple of kids getting electrocuted. I'll bet dollars to donuts that it has something to do with the Muslim Jihad mentality.

I lived in Tunisia. I could tell stories that would shock people about life there for the Tunisians. And Algeria is also a model of Socialism. Many of those are now in France.

Locations of Riots.




Bill Tibbe

Not entirely true... in the U.S. there are very wealthy people living in downtown Manhattan, Chicago, etc. And I'm sure there are quite a few people at this campfire who live in the country, but wouldn't characterize themselves as rich (at least not in dollars). And in Paris there are a number of places one can live (downtown) that are reasonable...over by the Sorbonne and the student areas. And there are also residential suburbs around Paris that are upscale and upper-middle-class... just like in the U.S.

We have to be careful of generalities, becuase most of the time they're not true.

B'sW

Well said Mrs Barak

At the base of it, people are people the world over and react to situations in somewhat predictable ways... be it Paris, Detroit, or Los Angeles...
----------------------------------------------------------

However, the big difference is people who are born to a country and then dissent, that is one thing.

On the flipside to that coin you have people who imigrate to a country to escape conditions in thier own country; they are welcomed in, given benefits, then demand more as if it is owed to them.

You're right, we see that here in the U.S, also.

"In Aulnay-sous-Bois, which has seen some of the worst of the rioting, residents walked past burnt out vehicles and buildings with banners reading "No to violence" and "Yes to dialogue"."

___________________________________________________

Wow!!! That oughta calm down those riotors!!!!!!!!!!!

L.W.

I agree, MM. The "attitude of entitlement" is one of the things that pushes my buttons really fast... And it seems to me that it's everywhere here in the U.S.

B'sW

Bill,

Not to be rude, but it seems you have a problem with Mexicans. A lot of the posts I have been reading of your's, yet interesting, seem to be pointed to the Mexican race. I think I know, but I am going to throw this out. What is your problem with Mexicans?
trying to compare what is going on in Paris to someday that happening here in the US by Mexicans is the funniest BS I have yet to hear. Mexicans are not Muslims or even act like Muslims. To try and compare a race and a religion is totally crazy in my view. But then again you may have a good explaination for this.

I understand your anger towards the border issues and the handouts and so on, but if you look it's not just Mexicans, there are a lot of other races in the equation, but you seem to put the entire blame on us. I don't get it. Maybe I am just misunderstanding what you are saying.
If i am misunderstanding you, please let me know so I don't have the wrong impression of you. I always give people the benefit of the doubt, but as of right now. The first impression is not good.

YB

Enrique:

???????? Please tell me that you live down there and you really don't know what is occurring !!!!!!!

* An official Government of Mexico plan to colonize the USA.

* Millions of illegal immigrants pouring over the border in defiance of US Immigration laws.

* Hospitals and clinics all over America closing doors and declaring bankruptcy.

* Scores of billions of dollare of illegal narcotics coming across that now eclipse Mexicos oil exports in dollar value.

* 30% of our prison population illegal immigrants of which Mexicans are the most numerous.

* Wholesale income tax evasion.

* Freeloading, milking every system for dollars, Medicaid, hundreds of thousands of fraudulent home loans, loading schools with illegal children who are paid for by American citizens.

* Bringing new and virulent diseases that are infection our childres, our public employees and our citizens.

* Piling up 15 to 60 in one house, defecating in the yard, overflowing septic systems, violating all health and fire codes, malingering and loitering by the hundreds on our streets, in front of professional offices and stores. Urinating publicly.

* Raping, murdering, robbing, stealing identities, illegal money transfers, crashing vehicles, damaging property, causing bodily injury.

* Aztlan

* Reconquista

* La Raza Bronce

* Lulac

* Maldef

* MEcha

* Los Zetas

* Grupo Beta

Please do not include universally all Mexicans. I'm referring specifically to the Corrupt Government of Vicente Fox, The turncoat Army, Drug Cartel, Coyotes, illegal Immigrants.

By the way if you are a legitimate American Citizen of Mexican ancestry, just as point of clarification you ARE NOT a Mexican you are an American.

There is a legal and proper way to come to the USA.

Bill Tibbe

EL PLAN DE AZTLAN
El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan
In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal "gringo" invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny.

We are free and sovereign to determine those tasks which are justly called for by our house, our land, the sweat of our brows, and by our hearts. Aztlan belongs to those who plant the seeds, water the fields, and gather the crops and not to the foreign Europeans. We do not recognize capricious frontiers on the bronze continent

Brotherhood unites us, and love for our brothers makes us a people whose time has come and who struggles against the foreigner "gabacho" who exploits our riches and destroys our culture. With our heart in our hands and our hands in the soil, we declare the independence of our mestizo nation. We are a bronze people with a bronze culture. Before the world, before all of North America, before all our brothers in the bronze continent, we are a nation, we are a union of free pueblos, we are Aztlan.

For La Raza to do. Fuera de La Raza nada.




Program
El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan sets the theme that the Chicanos (La Raza de Bronze) must use their nationalism as the key or common denominator for mass mobilization and organization. Once we are committed to the idea and philosophy of El Plan de Aztlan, we can only conclude that social, economic, cultural, and political independence is the only road to total liberation from oppression, exploitation, and racism. Our struggle then must be for the control of our barrios, campos, pueblos, lands, our economy, our culture, and our political life. El Plan commits all levels of Chicano society - the barrio, the campo, the ranchero, the writer, the teacher, the worker, the professional - to La Causa.


Nationalism
Nationalism as the key to organization transcends all religious, political, class, and economic factions or boundaries. Nationalism is the common denominator that all members of La Raza can agree upon.



Organizational Goals
1. UNITY in the thinking of our people concerning the barrios, the pueblo, the campo, the land, the poor, the middle class, the professional-all committed to the liberation of La Raza.


2. ECONOMY: economic control of our lives and our communities can only come about by driving the exploiter out of our communities, our pueblos, and our lands and by controlling and developing our own talents, sweat, and resources. Cultural background and values which ignore materialism and embrace humanism will contribute to the act of cooperative buying and the distribution of resources and production to sustain an economic base for healthy growth and development Lands rightfully ours will be fought for and defended. Land and realty ownership will be acquired by the community for the people's welfare. Economic ties of responsibility must be secured by nationalism and the Chicano defense units.


3. EDUCATION must be relative to our people, i.e., history, culture, bilingual education, contributions, etc. Community control of our schools, our teachers, our administrators, our counselors, and our programs.


4. INSTITUTIONS shall serve our people by providing the service necessary for a full life and their welfare on the basis of restitution, not handouts or beggar's crumbs. Restitution for past economic slavery, political exploitation, ethnic and cultural psychological destruction and denial of civil and human rights. Institutions in our community which do not serve the people have no place in the community. The institutions belong to the people.


5. SELF-DEFENSE of the community must rely on the combined strength of the people. The front line defense will come from the barrios, the camp os, the pueblos, and the ranchitos. Their involvement as protectors of their people will be given respect and dignity. They in turn offer their responsibility and their lives for their people. Those who place themselves in the front ranks for their people do so out of love and carnalismo. Those institutions which are fattened by our brothers to provide employment and political pork barrels for the gringo will do so only as acts of liberation and for La Causa. For the very young there will no longer be acts of juvenile delinquency, but revolutionary acts.


6. CULTURAL values of our people strengthen our identity and the moral backbone of the movement. Our culture unites and educates the family of La Raza towards liberation with one heart and one mind. We must insure that our writers, poets, musicians, and artists produce literature and art that is appealing to our people and relates to our revolutionary culture. Our cultural values of life, family, and home will serve as a powerful weapon to defeat the gringo dollar value system and encourage the process of love and brotherhood.


7. POLITICAL LIBERATION can only come through indepen-dent action on our part, since the two-party system is the same animal with two heads that feed from the same trough. Where we are a majority, we will control; where we are a minority, we will represent a pressure group; nationally, we will represent one party: La Familia de La Raza!


Action

1. Awareness and distribution of El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan. Presented at every meeting, demonstration, confrontation, courthouse, institution, administration, church, school, tree, building, car, and every place of human existence.


2. September 16, on the birthdate of Mexican Independence, a national walk-out by all Chicanos of all colleges and schools to be sustained until the complete revision of the educational system: its policy makers, administration, its curriculum, and its personnel to meet the needs of our community.


3. Self-Defense against the occupying forces of the oppressors at every school, every available man, woman, and child.


4. Community nationalization and organization of all Chicanos: El Plan Espiritual de Aztlan.


5. Economic program to drive the exploiter out of our community and a welding together of our people's combined resources to control their own production through cooperative effort.


6. Creation of an independent local, regional, and national political party.

A nation autonomous and free - culturally, socially, economically, and politically- will make its own decisions on the usage of our lands, the taxation of our goods, the utilization of our bodies for war, the determination of justice (reward and punishment), and the profit of our sweat.


El Plan de Aztlan is the plan of liberation!


Documents of the Chicano Struggle

Bill, this is not even close to true in the prisons where I volunteer. But perhaps you are speaking of Arizona only?

B'sW

Hey, they might be able to do a better job with California than we have... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

B'sW

MEChA Chairman Spills the Beans
on The O'Reilly Factor
March 8, 2002

Gochez: We are the nation of Aztlan.
O'Reilly: All right, that's good, you are the nation of Aztlan. That's great. Do you want your own territory? Do you want them to give you some land?
Gochez: We understand that we are sitting on stolen land. This is indigenous land. This is native land, you know, Mexicano land.
O'Reilly: So if I gave you Arizona would you be happy with that?
Gochez: They took a lot more than Arizona.
O'Reilly: So you want more than that.

L.A. now in Mexico?
Billboard for TV newscast has 'CA' crossed out, Mexico added
LOS ANGELES �� A billboard ad for a Spanish-language TV newscast in L.A. on which the "CA" abbreviation after "Los Angeles" has been crossed out and the word "Mexico" added in its place.
Underneath are the Spanish words, "Tu ciudad. Tu equipo." �� Your city.
"This is almost a poster-board for illegal immigration," Peter Amundson, a volunteer with the California Republican Assembly told the Times. "This is America. We're a land of immigrants -- legal immigrants. This is not Mexico. This is the United States." He called the ads "a slap in the face to Californians and a pretty blatant one."
An e-mail to supporters of Americans for Legal Immigration states: "We just received this photo of a billboard in CA that reads 'Los Angeles CA' but the CA is crossed out and replaced by the word 'Mexico.' ..."