Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR To weigh, or to (measure)drop BP charges?

This should be an interesting topic...

How many out there find high-accuracy in measure dropped charges and do NOT weigh each charge for competition?

I can measure and/or weigh to the tenth grain and still can't consistently hit diddley squat. For me, at least, keeping it real simple has the most reward. Just set up the 55 for 64 grains and check it every hundred rounds or so. Never varies more than 5 or 6 tenths.

Welcome to the fire, Timberlake! But come now, I shoot with you and I know that you do better than just "diddly squat". Like you, I try to keep it simple. Maybe I'm just lazy. Mostly I just measure, and use the scale to verify the measure setting for safety.

Paul

This measure or weigh is a question with a lot of answers. There are more than just a couple of ways of doing this, and once asked this question goes on and on, depending on how many folks you ask. So heres one way.

Black Powder has traditionaly been loaded by volume, so that must be a good way to load the stuff. For me there are a couple of considerations. One I must have coinfidance in the loading procedures to produce a number of loads that are exactly the same. I have read some on the science of energy, and this says that with different amounts of "A" propellant the energy releashed "Will" be different. The best and most sure way of getting varing amounts of propellants into a case is to load by volume, give it a try and you will see that no two cases really contain the same amount of powder. Funny thing is these varing amounts of powder don't seem to make much if any difference on the target, "Most Of The Time". The key word there is "Most". That for me doesn't instill a lot of that confidance I am looking for. So I have solved ay least part of that problem , the confidance part, by doing both loading by volume and weighing.

When I set down to load I mix 2 lbs of powder together in one container and mix them together. I actually load by "OAL" or over all length, this is in fact a volume load. I know what OAL I want the finished round to have. I have a case marked so that powder dropped thru a 34" drop tupe comes to a known level in that case. I then throw 10 of these loads and take an average of this known volume's weight and this is the weight of the powder load for that day. Rarely is this weight the same from loading session to loading session, the humidity and such determine the weight of BP on any given day. So what I am doing is actually loading by volume verified by weight. I then weigh each and every charge before I drop it and load it.

This process is something of a labour intensive process. Thats fine with me as I enjoy loading and this process does give me the confidence that the loads are as close to the same as I can make them. And as I said that is the most important aspect for me "Confidence"

Paul,

Sorry, I did not recognize your name and put 2 and 2 together. Yeah, it was an interesting year as far as my shooting went. Did OK at Alliance, terrible at Quigley, fine at Ackley and terrible back in Alliance. Same rifle, same load. I just couldn't keep things together.

As I was reading Gunny's post it struck me as though we end up with similar loaded cartridges. I shot Swiss 1.5 all year with "0" compression. For me that means a measured amount directly from the Lyman 55 into the case.....no drop tube. One fiber .060 wad and then the bullet. Result was OAL within .001" and Zip for runout. As I said I'd occasionally weigh a charge but it never varied more than a few tenths. I do use varying lengths of drop tubes to attain a certain powder column heights in other calibers. Powder height is an important factor.

Next year will be the year of the High Wall 45-90. The trapdoor is being worked on as we speak.... (a winter project I'll discuss later) For the 45-90 I'll have two loads. One for the Buff matches and one for all the others.

Let's talk somtime about the 22 Silouhette matchs........

In the morning, I'm off to Missouri for a little more work and maybe some crappie fishing.

TL

TL.

What's this "work" business, I thought you wuz retired? Or are you one of them thar consultants?

Paul

Paul,

I normally close the place up after Thanksgiving. This year is different. Got the Dish guy coming by on Sat the 19th for installation. Going to my daughter's in KC for Thanksgiving.

I am retired and I don't consult. But I am busier than I have ever been.

TL

Timber I think that nobody needs to feel bad about the shooting at the August Alliance shoot, with the wind, mirage, thin clouds and all the way they were good scores were just not going to be the norm. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Don,

After the match at Alliance in Aug, I was talking with Dean S. He was having trouble on the 1000 yd event. In fact, shot a 1. I was having trouble also and managed a 4. Point is, Dean could give me no reason "our" poor scoring and I could offer him none. I do know I had 23 minutes left cranked in and still could not stay on target. Oh well, next year will offer different challenges at Alliance.

TL

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> By the time they got around to getting the relay I was in over to the round 1000 yd target the light was so pithy you couldn't hardly even see it. Did manage to scratch 1 hit.
Been meaning to call Dean and see how he was coming with his 405.
With a bunch of luck and the cows willing I'll make the May shoot at Alliance. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

Good evening guys,

I load very similar to Gunny's method, but load to give a certain amount of compression, Ie Volume and then check weigh each charge. For the large amounts of powder I use in my 45-110 i use a MVA measure and have it set to dump 1/3 the amount I need and then do 3 dumps and weigh them. This is usually with in 2 tenths of 108 grs of the new process or as it will be called Goex Express powder.

I am a firm believer in consistant weight to volume loads it gives good numbers at the chorno and, If i do my part they shoot pretty good.

Worked ok at Raton and Did not do too bad at Alliance the following Sat.

Kenny Wasserburger

Ken, how long of a drop tube, do you use?, and how much more do you compress your load?
I do seem to recall you strolling off into the dark with a plaque of somekind <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Ranch, I use a 30 inch drop tube and about a 5 second pour. I then compress the powder .385 right on the money seems that Fg Likes that amount of compression in my 45-110. After compressing the powder I install a .060 poly wad, Newsprint wad on top of the poly.

Like Gunny I mix several pounds of powder at a time for my loading. A English Creedmoor shooter of the early Day mentioned this in a book he wrote and he was using the Vaunted C&H powder oft trouted as the best BP ever made. Due to what he claimed was varation in even one batch of powder. It sure worked for him, Cant say its hurt my scores any this year.

Yeah I did walk off with the biggest plaque Harlin and Wendy had for Scope class. Drank a couple of cold beers a few hrs later in Lusk to celabrate. I had a damm good spotter too.

Same guy at Raton and Alliance.

Kenny Wasserburger

Gunny's comment on weight...well, read a short time back about the differences in black by manufacturer, that relating to bulk density, and plain old weight by volume measure...the differences were quite surprising, and in some cases rather extreme. I knew then you fellas were a bunch of alchemists with pointy hats and mice running around the loading room.

The little loading I've done with black leads me to think volume is the path to glory. Keep adding powder until it sings...but then there is an inherent hazard to that philosophy I suppose, and I don't recommend it to anybody.

Think the article was in Double Gun Journal, if anybody is interested I'll go do a Dan Search.

Dan, I believe most who are working for the best possible shot to shot accuracy will weigh charges as it is the best way I know of to get maximum cartridge to cartridge consistency... "consistency" is the watchword.
With a strong BP rifle, I think you would be hard-pressed to damage it with any amount of BP you can jam into the parent casing!

Ho,

You've got the consistancy right on the money, that is the single most important factor to BP loading ( I Think ). I use the method I descriped of weighing to gain this consistancy once i have verified the volume loading. Interesting enough the weight of the same volume charge i use will vary from time to time, thus the reason for weighing each and every charge. Once again before some body gets there panties all in a bunch. This is the was I do it, I am not saying that it is the only way or even the right way just "MY" way. Must not forget those disclaimers in this posting crap.

Ho, i also think you are correct about being able to overlaod a BP case with too much powder. In my humble opinion this is not going to happen unless some fool comes along and uses a case full of primeing powder like 4 fg. As an example when Meacham or Shiloh or any maker builds a rifle they use the same barrel and steele and etc for a 45-110 as they do for a 45-70 thats a 40 grn difference right there.

Gunny

Ranch13,
Were you the guy shooting the original .50-90 (I think) at Alliance?
FWIW, like Gunny (If I understood him right), I'll use volume to set my measure, then I weigh check every load to .1 gr.- use a balance beam instead of my electronic scale, because I think it is faster & more accurate!
Crossfire, you seem to be MIA lately- come on, you aren't going to let a little "Bitch Slappin" from those California boys get to you are you? Incidently, you know that I am usually a pretty mellow sort, but I did get nose to nose this summer with -"Sorry about the oops on the Mid range position Creedmoor...
Guy I had in mind placed 10th, with a 522.07.......thought you were he. Apologies for my sin of assumption"..... We worked it out, but I guess we all get fired up on occasion- some a bit more often than others.
Kelley, In case you are wondering, I am on here more than normal, because I'm waiting for a new rifle to show up- maybe tomorrow- I'm so bored, I just finished painting the outside of the house-(well my wife helped)! I intend to be making lots of smoke in the next few weeks (arms tired from casting) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />......Dennis

Pathfinder no I was the one shooting the ladder sights and lubing the bullet nose as I chambered.

Alrighty then...different world, different techniques. I shall put away the flour scoop and dust off the scales.

I'm with Gunny I think about overpressure. Wonder if even 4F would dust up a cartridge cannon, but then I'd rather test that with somebody else's gun than mine.

Dan 3f will work ok in a 45-70 and smaller, I think 4f would be allright in small bore/capacity cases but wouldn't try it in anything except modern steel guns.
Good luck with the experimenting phase , but what ever you end up doing just make sure you don't have any air space between the powder charge and bullet when loading BP.