Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR The 'ole Westley-Richard impersonator belches fire...

SharpShooter: �easy big fellow�, that was your quote and EXACTLY what you said. Just looking at the situation from 360 degrees. Never doubted you for a minute � just trying to figure out, �who, what, when, where, how and why?� someone usually manages to slide in under the �foul line�!!
Even posted the, "IS THE RUGER LEGAL FOR ANYTHING?" question on the BPCR.net Rules and Regulations.

HELL, I wouldn't mind even entering a Silhouette match as a 'DQ' up front... what happens, happens... so what IF it isn't posted in the match records <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

(Presently considering welding a Sharps hammer to the side of the �ole #3 and makin' a faux-Miller outta it� <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />)

Joe, we allow, and encourage " Unclassified" bpcr rigs, at the matches here in Az..........at least in Sierra vista.

Kelley, I haven't gone anywhere, we were just discussing the way 22 Nov. ( yesterday) came and went with no particular comment. Boggy put up a good reflective , and intelligent post, regarding same..........on the Hunter's Campfire.

I'm in no particular hurry to say much of anything , about anything , to anybody here..........at this moment. Kinda organizing a few facts, and waiting to get a heads up, from some of the folks discussed, in foregoing posts.

......................see, a good hunter knows how to WAIT.

DFTFT, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />............... GTC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Idahjo, I think we are talking past each other. I have posted and agree that the Miller is indeed legal for the BPCR sports. From what I understand the Rugers are not legal in any. It is strange that the Borchardt is not legal in that it was made well before 1896 and meets all the requirements except for the hammer. In a similar vein the Peabody is legal, the Martini is not. I dunno.

Your #3 Westley-Richards would be quite welcome in a silhouette match at my home range of Fort Chadbourne. We're always pleased to have another shooter. You wouldn't get scored with everyone else but you would be recognized for your score and unique rifle.

Does this help any?

SS

Yup, the Hotchkiss ( sp?!), and the '71,'71-'84 bear some scrutiny, too. They were THERE, during the buffalo era.

The finely tuned long range rigs that the Connought bunch have lashed up, for DCRA BPCR shooting are superb rifles, and a good example of where you can go with a # 1 Ruger. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Got word today about all kinds of hell being raised at the Az. state match <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />............................( hope my dotted line doesn't offend anyone too bad here, DFTFT <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) about " Switch Barrel Rifles", and all their implications. This will no doubt be the next furor, " Tempest in a teapot" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />..........and will hopefully replace this tired , worn out .38 cal. BS. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The CPA 44 1/2 Stevens....THAT is an example of a Bastard child seeking solace, and yet it garnered acceptance, and certification...........a design that did not materialize, until late 1903 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />. Bottom line, ...........and yet, I don't feel like your Kliengunther Instafire, or super tuned sucks, in a BPC, would have any particular edge, over my '74 sidehammer rig....lock time is a somewhat overated subject......there's still a $hitload of barrel time to deal with.

Wierd Planet, NO? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Work safe, shoot often <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, GTC <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Yes, my friend, thank you! You hit the 'nail on the head' with the Borchardt being not allowed even though it is "period"... of course IF 'they' (powers to be) allow the Borchardt, they would probably be opening Pandora's Box, and then the Martini, Rugers #1-3, Westley-Richards, etc. etc. will be beating down the door also. Faster lock times(may) = higher scores?!?
VICIOUS CIRCLE <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

WHATSAMATTER, don't like my idea of a Ruger#3 with a Sharps side-hammer welded onto it?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Greg,

The Stevens was allowed because at the start of BPCR there just wasn't alot of rifle manufactures that produced rifles that fit the 1896 rule. At the start of BPCR there were only original rifles being shot. Now it's take your pick.

Lock time another de-bait.

OK, so what was the furor over? Did someone shot a switch barreled rifle?. So the rules state you have to shoot the same rifle for the match, does shooting a rifle that is altered during a match count? By the way that very same thing happened at Raton one year, barrel switching and I'm not sure what became of it.

Let's start a de-bait on lock time <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

Kelley O.

OK Kelley, I will jump right in...
Lock Time. that nanosecond between the time the sear is released and the hammer makes contact detonating the primer? ok.. In my opinion and not so humble, I do not think that there is a shooter alive that can hold the rifle steady or long enough to know the difference between a fast (Hiwall) lock time and a slow (Sharps) lock time. Not even between a striker action (Borchardt) and an underhammer front stuffer.
Well maybe there but I really doubt it. In a machine rest and electronic timers yeah .

OK everyone give me your best, but do not expect me to change my opinion. I will respect yours though.
Jim

My version of the truth on lock time...it is but a small bit player in the symphony of things beginning with the break of the sear, the list almost endless, and variable as well between one shot to the next. It may have a different color from one rifle to the next but the wagon still gets there, queered and steered by all the other noise attendant with the launch. 'Tis a subject outside the box of my interest for the most part.

I know this is very subjective but until the last few months I had been shooting a Sharps in silhouette. It had double set triggers. I decided to change calibers and sent it to a gunsmith to re-barrel. Rather than set up another rifle for silhouette while waiting on the Sharps I decided to shoot my hunting rifle in silhouette just for fun. It has a single trigger.

I can tell a difference in lock time. The single trigger is faster and it seems to me to make a difference especially at chickens. I realize that it could all be my imagination, but it certainly FEELS different.

Same way with my Borchardt, when I pull the trigger it seems to be in the ignition speed range of my Nesika bolt action.

As always YMMV, but there is my nickles worth.

SS

I have a Nickel, so will toss it into the pot�

[Awfulhand shooting:] �the fine art of hopeful precision predicated upon discharging a projectile within the opportune window of opportunity as the intended aiming point on the target wobbles hither and fro�.

That said, narrowing the time interval during the �grab� while still in the window of opportunity, cannot be all bad... [my vote is for faster lock-time]

CHEERS! (Happy Thanksgiving)

I'm still thinking about it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Kelley O.

Better think 'fast', or soon you'r a'gonna be too stuffed with Thanksgiving dinner to think for quite awhile <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

AH, such bliss <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Kelley O.

Before I fall victim to the Turkey Snoozles....

Lest their be any confusion on my words above, I don't doubt that a shorter lock time is beneficial, assuming it can be accomplished without stressing the bolt/breech/receiver etc etc by spring load. I do think a fine trigger is more important though....having trouble trying to understand how a single or double trigger could affect lock time though. Have used them in the past and present, absolutely love set triggers for target work though I don't use them much afield. Well, I carry them but just don't use the feature much. Gloves. Have one on a #1/Bob, embarassed a Palma shooter at the local range one day with that one. THEY don't get to use 8 oz triggers and other such woosie stuff. IIRC they are handicapped with a 5# minimum, or there abouts. Makes a huge difference IMO, you all already know that probably. Sorry about going off on a tangent.

Anyhoo, for 'awful-hand' shooting I think other factors would play more distinctly than lock time. You barrel doesn't move that much in a half millisecond...if that's the difference...more or less. So, .5 millisecond X 2"/sec = how many MOA?(all numbers hypothetical, calculations subject to scorching review, do the math yourself) Just my mind running amok. Happy T-day.

Dan, double set triggers especially of the Sharps variety are known to be slower than the single. Something about the mechanics of it all. I don't think we are talking about milliseconds, more like hundedths of a second. I am guessing that someone out there has measured some lock times on these types of rifles. My sense is that several hundredths of a second on a moving rifle could have an effect.

Bear in mind this is just my instinct, could be wrong.

SS

I'm with Sharpshooter's point of yiew.

The double bar set triggers on these '74 sidehammer guns are glacially slow, in comparison to just about anything else around.

in a back issue of " Accurate Rifle", or ' Precision Shooting', theres an article with oscilograph printouts of a launch cycle in millisecs.................. sear break, hammer fall, pinstrike, and than the burn time lag, or deadspot, prior to bullet movement.

This was on turnbolt rigs of course.

must dig around and see if I can turn it up.

GTC

Well then, we should search out some research on the subject as it relates to the gun in question. Knowing that bolt guns have several speeds in the lock time race....fast-faster-lickety split-yesterday's news...doesn't play on the specific guns do it? I'm not familiar with the workings of a Sharps trigger. Just like women I suppose, all different when you start takin' things apart.

A little research(unverified by a calculator) reveals a factoid suggesting that 1 mil of offset in barrel position is equivalent to .3" at 100 yards...so if you want to race lock time this might be a starting point...remembering the significant number is the difference between fast and slow...1/100ths or milli's, it won't be a big number. So, how fast is a barrel weaving(radians) whilst held in the awful-hand position? I dunno...

My reference above is Harold Vaughn but I may have taken his info out of context, 'twas a quick scan, it's late and I'm tired.

My feeling is that I'm wobbling back and forth past the chicken maybe 18 inches total twice in a second. So maybe I'm traversing 36" per second at 200m?

Just a guess.

SS

Cold-hard facts are... I 'wobble'!
I will take ANY help I can get (real or imagined... ) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

OK, Don't wobble, that help enough <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

Kelley O.