|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,916
Campfire Ranger
|
OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 16,916 |
The booming handgun/AR platform market going on in our country today has generated a new breed of shooter at my club in Pa. and the new member list is on a huge rise.
FIREPOWER IS EVERYTHING !!!!!!!!!
The number of shooters blasting away with ARs and semi-auto pistols on the 25 yard line has become somewhat of a joke with the old heads at the club due to the trench dug in front of the 25 yard targets created by bullets that failed to cross the huge expanse of 75 feet and hit paper.
These new members have become somewhat organized at the monthly meetings and are requesting that the club install a 15 yard backstop at considerable expense to the club simply because they can't shoot.
Laughable. JMHO.
284.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
AR's did not create dumbphucks. They've been around a long time.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 21,317 |
Instead of laughing at them (I usually shake my head in disgust) why doesn't your club look at the opportunity to engage them in marksmanship training?
It's the catch 22 of a club having a bunch or old curmudgeons and declining membership, and having a lack of members.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,920 |
There are probably now more "new shooters" than ever before. It is really too bad that most of them will never reach their potential because no one will ever teach them the correct way to shoot. A one day NRA Basic course will turn most from noise makes to group makers....
Bob
If you can not deal with reality, reality will deal with you....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 743
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 743 |
I watched a little gang banger with his new Glock at the range two weeks ago walk up to the line and held it sideways "gangsta style" and then rapid fired a dozen rounds or so, only to see he didn't hit the target once. Must have been that his pants weren't pulled up all the way! Or maybe that "dew rag" got in the way of his sight picture? He got bored after about 10 minutes and left. I chuckled all afternoon thinking about that kid.
God Bless America!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,596 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 10,596 Likes: 1 |
He probably wasn't using the new Zombie ammo.
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,121
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,121 |
I think it's reasonably safe to conclude the natural outgrowth of the popularity of hi-capacity firearms is where the term "spray and pray" originated.
It's also been my experience that most gun owners are not proficient shooters, and will spend very little time, effort or money to address that reality.
Unfortunately, that's fairly indicative of the LE community as well. We used to recognize and award the "Top 10" in both agencies I worked for and that pretty much covered the number of officers that were truly interested in being better than average shooters.
If you were to offer the average gun enthusiast a choice between a $300 pistol and $700 worth of training or a $700 pistol and $300 worth of training - the overwhelming majority will choose the later.
My shooting mentor, that Cooper guy from AZ used to say, "Owning a violin doesn't make you a violinist."
The uninitiated are always easily impressed.
NRA Endowment Member
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13
Campfire Sage
|
|
Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 Likes: 13 |
I have been watching idiots at public ranges since 1999.
I have been watching idiots refuse (and even become insulted) when offered assistance, since 1999.
Learning proper (or at least decent) marksmanship is not horribly complex. If they don't want to read a book, or ask a [bleep] question or two, I don't want them to hit what they're aiming at. They're morons.
Travis
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,640
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,640 |
Seems to be the case everywhere these days.
I am far less concerned about the knowledge and marksmanship of the "new breed" than I am about their lack of safe gun handling. Poor muzzle control, handling with actions closed, etc., seem to be the norm at our club ranges, and there seems to be a direct correlation between unsafe gun handling and the large capacity, rapid fire thing.
I really don't care about tastes and preferences in firearms. Safety should trump everything else - period.
Paul
Stupidity has its way, while its cousin, evil, runs rampant.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,667
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 24,667 |
One of my favorite stories�
One day I�m at this un-supervised public range behind Beale Air Force Base (Camp Far West) and there�s this guy shooting a Mini-14 that was equipped with some sort of variable scope. He�s shooting at a 1 gallon jug (Minute Maid Orange Juice) at the 100 yard line. The jug is orange so it�s very easy to see. He�s cranking off the shots and not even beginning to make the jug nervous. I have a S&W J frame in my hand, I think it was a 442. So I haul up and start ringing a couple in fairly close and then on the 3rd shot, just nail it. His eyes about pop out of his head�then he really settles down and begins missing much closer. I ring in a second hit, then another miss about the same difference away that he was missing with his high-velocity scope sighted rifle. He looks to me and says, �Wow, that little pistol is really accurate�. I just smiled, got in my car and drove away. My bud and I were about as dumbfounded as he was, only we couldn�t believe that someone could crank off a 20 round mag and manage to hit the jug a grand total of twice.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,109
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,109 |
AR's did not create dumbphucks. They've been around a long time.
Travis Travis ... that is a classic .. I will probably borrow it in some form or another ...
George Associate Gypsy Order of Sleepless Knights ... That is when I carried you ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,407
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,407 |
The booming handgun/AR platform market going on in our country today has generated a new breed of shooter at my club in Pa. and the new member list is on a huge rise.
FIREPOWER IS EVERYTHING !!!!!!!!!
The number of shooters blasting away with ARs and semi-auto pistols on the 25 yard line has become somewhat of a joke with the old heads at the club due to the trench dug in front of the 25 yard targets created by bullets that failed to cross the huge expanse of 75 feet and hit paper.
These new members have become somewhat organized at the monthly meetings and are requesting that the club install a 15 yard backstop at considerable expense to the club simply because they can't shoot.
Laughable. JMHO.
284.
Makes no sense to pop away with my CW9 at 25 yards.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,878 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,878 Likes: 11 |
Makes no sense to pop away with my CW9 at 25 yards.
I might not agree with ya there Tony. I practice with my little J frame @ 25 yards, so why not with the CW9? I don't get to set the parameters of how or when I will need a tool. I just unwrap the present and then have to deal with what I get. (Another reason why I generally carry a G19, using the J frame only in the backup role)
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,878 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,878 Likes: 11 |
There are probably now more "new shooters" than ever before. It is really too bad that most of them will never reach their potential because no one will ever teach them the correct way to shoot. A one day NRA Basic course will turn most from noise makes to group makers....
Bob Bob is right. Mentoring and encouraging them instead of grumbling and making comments under your breath may not only save you from having to build a new range line, it may actually save your club. New members mean new interests too. The focus may change and older members may have to deal with that too. It may go from the old days of one hand on the hip, bullseye type shooting to IPSC or IDPA style shooting, or a .22 kids program. Sometimes it is hard for older shooters to deal with that change if they are in their comfort zone and have been there for a very long time (decades). Accepting the change may breath new life into an old and dying club and some of the older members may find some enjoyment in mentoring some of the younger generations they were grumbling about. Off my "Motivational Soapbox"  CHEERS!
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,878 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,878 Likes: 11 |
On that note, The title of this thread: "Basic Marksmanship Skills Severely Lacking" Most will see that as complaining. Smart club members should see that as opportunity. Capitalize on it. Take pictures of the impact area where the rounds are landing. Post them on the firing line. Offer a 1 day or 2 day class on marksmanship fundamentals. Show a picture of what a chewed up bullseye looks like. Make your club grow. Make your club money. Improve your own skill sets. Improve your own teaching skills.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,109
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,109 |
Well put ye ole Sage of the Brush
George Associate Gypsy Order of Sleepless Knights ... That is when I carried you ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 469
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 469 |
One of my favorite stories�
One day I�m at this un-supervised public range behind Beale Air Force Base (Camp Far West) and there�s this guy shooting a Mini-14 that was equipped with some sort of variable scope. He�s shooting at a 1 gallon jug (Minute Maid Orange Juice) at the 100 yard line. The jug is orange so it�s very easy to see. He�s cranking off the shots and not even beginning to make the jug nervous. I have a S&W J frame in my hand, I think it was a 442. So I haul up and start ringing a couple in fairly close and then on the 3rd shot, just nail it. His eyes about pop out of his head�then he really settles down and begins missing much closer. I ring in a second hit, then another miss about the same difference away that he was missing with his high-velocity scope sighted rifle. He looks to me and says, �Wow, that little pistol is really accurate�. I just smiled, got in my car and drove away. My bud and I were about as dumbfounded as he was, only we couldn�t believe that someone could crank off a 20 round mag and manage to hit the jug a grand total of twice.
Kevin has a habit of showing off his far better than avg shooting skills. LOL.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,647 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,647 Likes: 1 |
I have been watching idiots at public ranges since 1999.
I have been watching idiots refuse (and even become insulted) when offered assistance, since 1999.
Learning proper (or at least decent) marksmanship is not horribly complex. If they don't want to read a book, or ask a [bleep] question or two, I don't want them to hit what they're aiming at. They're morons.
Travis All very true on so many different levels. For the most part, unless the person looks like he may want some help, I just don't say anything other than to just shake my head. Lots of folks take serious offense to anyone offering help as an inference of inferiority. I've got better ways to spend my time for the most part. MM
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,647 Likes: 1
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,647 Likes: 1 |
There are probably now more "new shooters" than ever before. It is really too bad that most of them will never reach their potential because no one will ever teach them the correct way to shoot. A one day NRA Basic course will turn most from noise makes to group makers....
Bob Bob is right. Mentoring and encouraging them instead of grumbling and making comments under your breath may not only save you from having to build a new range line, it may actually save your club. New members mean new interests too. The focus may change and older members may have to deal with that too. It may go from the old days of one hand on the hip, bullseye type shooting to IPSC or IDPA style shooting, or a .22 kids program. Sometimes it is hard for older shooters to deal with that change if they are in their comfort zone and have been there for a very long time (decades). Accepting the change may breath new life into an old and dying club and some of the older members may find some enjoyment in mentoring some of the younger generations they were grumbling about. Off my "Motivational Soapbox" CHEERS! You are right, but only in the context of willing or potential club members who are interested in learning to shoot or just improving their current expertise............public ranges & many of the people that go there in large part are a different animal. MM
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,839
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,839 |
The easiest ones to teach are the ones who have their kids there with them, if they'll let you show the kids how to hit they suddenly decide they want to figure it out too cause they can't have their azz whipped by a kid.
Another way is to put your kid on the next position and teach them, the guy missing beside them will often eavesdrop and pick up some new and better habits.
The hardest ones to teach are the ones who bring their girlfriend to the range. They're too busy trying to prove how macho they are to want to listen and they find it insulting if you point something out in front of their girlfriend.
I had one guy commenting that a few of us who were shooting one day must have been using special ammo to be able to hit a target at 75 yards. I was using a .22 single shot with open sights and my cowboy loads in my revolvers.
The original international turd
|
|
|
|
|
140 members (3dtestify, AlleghenyMountain, 44mc, 10Glocks, 7887mm08, AussieGunWriter, 13 invisible),
1,456
guests, and
842
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,192,863
Posts18,497,256
Members73,980
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
