Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Shooting the .500 S&W

Bill Andreas shooting his .500 S&W. What a boomer!!

This is why rifles are made....
RS

What load???

I just am not that much of a masochist!

My 7.5 inch Super Blackhawk 41 mag with 210's at 1500 fps is all the punishment I want to deal with. I really wonder, though with the extra weight of the X-Frame or the BFR, and with the ported barrel, how much harder the 500 would recoil?

How does it compare with hot 44 Mag loads from an unported revolver?

Free recoil for the 270gr Load is around 19ftlbs but nearly doubles when the 440 Corbons are used ---34ftlbs. I'm not sure what a normal 44mag would be, let's say a M629 6.5" w/ 240gr max loads, but, it would probably be around 10 to 11 ftlbs. Another calculation I like better is in basic terms of ftlb energy based on the principal that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. That figure is moderated by the weight of the hangun but does provide a basis of comparison.

I have the same gun and with 275 grain Barnes, they are very manageable. When I shot it again after a long hiatus I was impressed at how little it recoiled with that load. They are loaded well above factory velocity to the best accuracy which is also not at the top of chart. I also have a 5.5" Redhawk (that I'm selling on gunbroker) that has a much sharper and stinging recoil with 200 grainers and the factory grips than my 500 with 275's. I can't tell a lot of difference between the Barnes 275's and 325's but in very limited load evaluation, the 275's shot a bit better in my gun so I am using them mostly. They would do the trick for any game in North America, but for big bears I'd use bigger: probably try the Barnes 385's. The 440's are nasty and I see no reason to use them. I have a box with five out, that I'll shoot up someday just for the brass. Or let somebody else do it. There's a guy on ebay selling 700 grain cast bullets for the 500. Anybody buying those is certifiably nuts but when loaded with a reasonable load the 500 is very shootable and very accurate. It's a great gun!

Handloader:
Free recoil is the right thing to look at when comparing how a gun "feels" in your hand. My NRA Firearms Fact Book (Third Edition) has a very good explanation of the factors in calculating free recoil. Momentum of the gun = momentum of the projectile + momentum of the powder charge.
There was a NOVA program on PBS, Einstein's Big Idea, in October that also covered the subject. Newton's statements of the three laws of motion introduced impulse (Force x Time) and momentum (Mass x Velocity), but the concept of kinetic energy as ( 1/2xMassxVelocityxVelocity) wasn't formally stated until the 20th century. Newton's laws of motion treated conservation of momentum, not kinetic energy.

In any event, the NRA treatment states that "The recoil impulse depends essentially upon the ammunition, and is independent of the weight of the gun." Also, "The free recoil velocity can make it unpleasant to shoot, even if the recoil impulse is not excessive."

It's a good thing the kinetic energy of the projectile is not what you feel - that 440 grain .500 S&W projectile has a kinetic energy at the muzzle of 2577 ft-lb. Assuming you're a big guy holding the gun 18 inches in front of your body, you would have to be able to hold 1700 pounds!!

Sorry for the Physics 101 lecture, but a lot of people seem to get off on the wrong trail.

Steve S.

I agree with that statement wholeheartedly. After the novelty of brutal recoil wears off loads in the 30,000 to 40,000 psi range are plenty powerful AND pleasant to shoot. My deer load is 36.5 gr. of H4227 under a 350 gr. XTP with WLR primers. That gives 1480 fps ave. with excellent accuracy and is a grain and a half under Hodgdons starting load. The recoil level is no worse than some .44 magnum combos but the killing power should be significantly greater. (This from a man who hasn't shot anything with it!) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

My next project will be to find a practice load with low cost cast or plated bullets that shoots to the same POI as the hunting load so I don't have to fiddle with the Aimpoint settings to enjoy light recoil plinking.

So these seem to be contradictory statements? I'm not sure what you view as the wrong trail but I can tell when a gun kicks hard and when it doesn't with or without a formula to quantify it.

I can most definitely tell you that the weight of the gun as a dependant factor in felt recoil is never as apparent as it is when a full house 357 goes off in my 360PD. I don't know about scientically defined "impusle recoil" but when that 12 oz J frame fires a 357 the impulses permeate most regions of my anatomy with great force and vigor. I wonder how the eggheads would handle that one.

the rcoil of the 270 grain bullet @ 1600fps from a 4.5 pound hand gun not counting the effect of the brake would be(recoil velocity-19.38fps,free recoil 26.27 foot pound) the 440 gran @ 1660fps would be(27.21fps recoil velocity,free recoil 53.73 foot pounds) this is calculated from a computer program

RickyD:
I can see you have a lot of posts on this forum and are probably much more experienced with hard kicking guns than I am.
I'll try to clarify & simplify my earlier remarks.
I think we're both saying the same thing. Just coming at it from different directions.
Momentum is the product of mass and velocity.
Impulse is the produce of force and time.
MOMENTUM equals IMPULSE. MxV = FxT. If you fire a 125 gr. Cor Bon +P round, the velocity of the gun recoiling in your hand is going to depend on the weight of that gun.
So it's no mystery that your 12 oz. 360PD kicks much more than my 42 oz. (loaded) 686. Newton's laws of motion give us an objective way to compare stuff.
Unless I use a Pachmayr grip, the 686 kills my arthritic thumb. I can't imagine shooting that same load in a gun that kicks 3 1/2 times harder..... Actually - I can. I fired one round and quit.

Sluggo63
Posts are easy. All that takes is liking to hear yourself talk.....kinda <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Experience with big guns is relative and there's always another relative around here with more. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But I appreciate your gesture and so will lots of others.

Here's the problem I have with recoil formulas: they don't take into account lots of stuff that affect it and can create apprehension that is sometimes unwarranted. Stuff like the grips or configuration of the grip frame. Both are critical in perceived recoil. If a compensator is present that is ignored completely although some are much more effective than others. It doesn't take into consideration a shooters recoil tolerance. It doesn't take into consideration load pressure. All these things determine how we perceive recoil, formulas not withstanding. Those omissions places the formulas back to more subjective than objective in many cases: not all.

Formulas are nice to compare how things might be with recoil. Shooting the gun tells you instantly how they are.

Sorry to hear about that thumb! Bummer! I will believe for a healing with you.

Welcome and keep posting! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Factorys. Just getting started.

I agree with RipSnort.
This is why rifles are made.
But every man chooses his own poison.