My personal experience was that my acceptance of God has made Religion and the Bible, and other religious writing irrelevant.
I feel very much the same.
I am part of the Christian culture, but it is my personal history and active research that led me to what I think and feel to be - for me at least - a meaningful understanding of God and its intentions. This understanding goes well beyond what was inculcated into me in my infancy and early adolescence.
Is it too ambitious or too naive to look for an honest politician? Or simply a useful one?
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~ As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
What is the difference between causation and correlation?
One of the most common errors we find in the press is the confusion between correlation and causation in scientific and health-related studies. In theory, these are easy to distinguish � an action or occurrence can cause another (such as smoking causes lung cancer), or it can correlate with another (such as smoking is correlated with alcoholism). If one action causes another, then they are most certainly correlated. But just because two things occur together does not mean that one caused the other, even if it seems to make sense. In general, we should all be wary of our own bias; we like explanations. The media often concludes a causal relationship among correlated observances when causality was not even considered by the study itself. Without clear reasons to accept causality, we should only accept correlation. Two events occurring in close proximity does not imply that one caused the other, even if it seems to makes perfect sense.
AND EVEN THEN>>>
Would someone PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE show me one single solitary thing OTHER THAN THE BIBLE ITSELF... That proves that Jesus exisited at all? Just one thing.
Or just explain the absence of extant reference to Jesus during his lifetime and the scarcity of non-Christian reference to him in the 1st century...
Christianity emerged organically from Hellenistic Judaism and draws on parallels between the character Jesus and those of Greek, Egyptian, and other gods, especially those figuring in myths about dying and rising deities.
Or Is it that your just going to say "well the bible says" again? Self promotion isnt proof. Using the bible as a reference to PROVE the existance of Jesus isnt proof. What are you going to "prove" next? That caamels and kangaroos shared stalls on the ark? That someplace in the worlds oceans there currently rests a 7 headed hydra? Oh, that 2 people who shared identical DNR are responsible for the entire race of humanity since the dawn of time...whats that? about 4K years, right? Bunch of brainwashed, arrogant, children. A 8 year old retarded kid that wasnt brain washed from sunday school on would be able to punch holes in your theories.
These threads on Christianity always bring to mind 1 thing. The Bible does NOT teach predestination. It teaches that every man has a free choice in whether to accept Christ or not. However, God is not bounded by time and He knows what that choice will be long before a person is even born. Note this scripture:
Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Those who God knows will respond, He calls and the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth of the Word. For the rest, the Bible is foolishness. It's important to know, though, that the call can come at any time, even on the deathbed. A man in his last hours is free to change his mind. If he does, God will call him, even if he has a foot in the grave.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Would someone PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE show me one single solitary thing OTHER THAN THE BIBLE ITSELF... That proves that Jesus exisited at all? Just one thing.
I'm not sure what you mean by "proves." As Ken pointed out, there is no proof that he exists. Similarly, there is no proof that I exist, that Abe Lincoln existed, or that any historical person actually existed at all. Therefore we must rely on credible evidence.
There is an abundance of credible evidence that Jesus Christ existed as an historical person. He is mentioned by name in the writings of many contemporary historians, including Tacitus, Suetonis and Josephus as Plinker pointed out.
A good overview of this subject is in Chapter 5 of J. P. Moreland's "Scaling The Secular City." I have an extra copy of this book and will mail it to you if you PM your address to me.
Another great book on this subject that I have read is "The Historical Jesus - Ancient Evidence For The Life Of Christ" by Gary Habermas. Yet another book that I have heard is a good treatment of this subject but have not read is "Jesus and Christian Origins Outside the New Testament" by F. F. Bruce.
So, ringworm, just get into the literature. There is abundant evidence that Jesus Christ actually existed.
and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God? (Micah 6:8)
First they need to prove that Jesus was a real person.
Start by reading Josephus.
Start? Please, dont be convinced that everyone is as brain dead as the sheep you are accoustomed to. I was raised a southern pres. I have read plenty. If Josephus is the best you can come up with then you are proving my point for me. Here is the paragraph that currently appears in The Antiquities of the Jews, written by Josephus around 95 C.E.:
Quote
"Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works--a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named for him are not extinct to this day."
If this is the strongest and earliest extra-biblical evidence for the historical Jesus, then the scholarship is on the shakiest grounds. That passage from Josephus has been shown conclusively to be a forgery, and even conservative scholars admit it has been tampered with. But even were it historical, it dates from more than six decades after the supposed death of Jesus.
In all of Josephus' voluminous writings, there is nothing about Jesus or Christianity anywhere outside the tiny paragraph cited so blithely by the Associated Press.
Historians have no evidence of a historic Jesus dating from the early first century, even though many contemporary writers documented the era in great detail. Philo of Alexandria, for example, wrote in depth about early first-century Palestine, naming other self-proclaimed messiahs, yet never once mentioning a man named Jesus. Many other contemporary writers covered that era, yet there is not a single mention of any existence, deeds, or words of a man named Jesus.
The Gospels are not history; they are religious propaganda, contradictory, exaggerated, and mythical. But, you know what? You guys will remained convinced that this super man comic book character was a real flesh and blood person. So be it. Just dont laugh at people who belive in Bigfoot with just as much data as you have.
Please, dont be convinced that everyone is as brain dead as the sheep you are accoustomed to. I was raised a southern pres. I have read plenty.
Then if you're so smart, you know that one of us is wrong. Are you 100% confident in your choice? Or are you so insecure in your position that you have to stoop to name calling in a discussion among adults?
Back to the OP, the extra-biblical archaeological find is the first tangible evidence found to prove the existence of the birthplace of Jesus Christ. Archaeology has proven the Bible.
Isn't it funny how so many people consider disbelief so "logical," based on their own cogitations and later literature while they dismiss as "fools" and "sheep" us who believe on faith in ancient and on-going revelation?
Hafta wonder why they so vociferouly demand proof that Jesus Christ exists and is the Son of God but never present evidence that He doesn't and isn't.
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
These threads on Christianity always bring to mind 1 thing. The Bible does NOT teach predestination. It teaches that every man has a free choice in whether to accept Christ or not. However, God is not bounded by time and He knows what that choice will be long before a person is even born. Note this scripture:
Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Those who God knows will respond, He calls and the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth of the Word. For the rest, the Bible is foolishness. It's important to know, though, that the call can come at any time, even on the deathbed. A man in his last hours is free to change his mind. If he does, God will call him, even if he has a foot in the grave.
I believe the opposite Rock Chuck. I believe that if you haven't been chosen, you won't, and can't come to God.
John 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
And that's the reason that when faced with so much clear evidence that God exists, Jesus was born, lived, and died on a cross, that they still reject Him.
Rom 3:10-18 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; (11) THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; (12) ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE." (13) "THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE, WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING," "THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS"; (14) "WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS"; (15) "THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, (16) DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS, (17) AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN." (18) "THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES."
Unless God has chosen them, they will continue to do the same thing Adam did after he sinned. They will run away from God. I used to believe what you do, and argued that point with a lot of zeal! As I continued to study the scriptures, I realized I was wrong. I won't debate it though, because I know how angry people get when you tell them that they don't have a choice. Salvation is of the Lord.
Rom 9:8-16 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. (9) For this is the word of promise: "AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON." (10) And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; (11) for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, (12) it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER." (13) Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." (14) What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! (15) For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION." (16) So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Rom 9:20-22 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? (21) Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? (22) What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?
Tough subject, but it demonstrates why men with a sound mind will scoff at the truth of God. Look at all the scoffers in this thread. Natural man hates God, and always will.
... I believe the opposite Rock Chuck. I believe that if you haven't been chosen, you won't, and can't come to God. ...
That must be very comfortable for the chosen ones, like you I presume.
As for the others, there is no hope ? They are left for ever in the darkness and the cold ?
What a lovely picture of your "God" (for this "God" of yours one could spare the high-case G...) you paint for us!!!...
Your exactly right Deersmeller. And that is a tough deal. But, He is the Creator. We are simply His subjects. Actually, all of us deserve death. Every last one of us are guilty sinners. Me, and you. He out of His mercy saves some.
Kind or interesting that my daughter, born with Down's and a huge hole in her heard and diagnosed to live only a few weeks only received prayer in Jesus name is a healthy woman today with no Down's and no hole in her heart. Vancouver has the tissue samples that prove the Down's then tissue samples that show no Downs taken seven years later.
Deersmeller, read Chapter 9 of the Book of Romans. Paul talks about why some are chosen, and why some aren't. Some of the hardest words in the Bible. Ones I didn't like, nor understand for a long time.
Your not in a good place. But, I don't know if you have been chosen or not. Only God knows that. Not some simple man like me. Take it up with Him and see what He has to say about it.
Your exactly right Deersmeller. And that is a tough deal. But, He is the Creator. We are simply His subjects. Actually, all of us deserve death. Every last one of us are guilty sinners. Me, and you. He out of His mercy saves some.
What a hopeless, loveless and compassion-less view of God and Christianity you paint.
I wonder where you worship, but it cannot be a happy place, even for the people who believe they are part of the chosen ones.
You make hateful people like the Jeremiah Wright of today or the Torquemada of yesteryear look sympathetic by comparison.
Is it too ambitious or too naive to look for an honest politician? Or simply a useful one?
Yes, it does � but (as the original Greek term makes clear) not the philosophers' notion of predetermining every event. Biblical predestination is "setting the boundaries of," as if we live in a huge, fenced area and are free to roam at will anywhere in that area (and even to climb over the fence if we like the other side better).
Ephesians 1:5, 1:11 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, � In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:" (emphasis added)
"Good enough" isn't.
Always take your responsibilities seriously but never yourself.
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