Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire COPS GUN DOWN MAN FOR LEGALLY CARRYING FIREARM

I think we can all agree to a high standard of behavior while armed. What is not agreed is the high standard application to all parties. Unless one uses a flame thrower or just shoots on sight, there are very few methods of greater capacity to antagonize and escalate a situation than having a full body armored death squad surround an individual pointing weapons and shouting orders as a cursory perfunctory to take their life. Hard to imagine a more aggressive fashion of response. It doesn't take much to anticipate what a typical response would be.

Put yourself in the officers shoes for just a second. You respond to a call of a man who's reported to be acting "erratically" and the man is armed. You arrive and tell the man to halt/lay down/stop etc and he does not do what you asked, but instead, draws a weapon and points it at you. Would you shoot the man or wait for him to shoot you ?

How can you possibly hold this opinion after reading the account from multiple eyewitnesses? Unless you hate cops de facto, then you just ignore facts.

The guy was wasted on booze and pills (thereby negating his right to carry), and gave cops no option (since they are blamed by the public no matter what they do anyway). Good shoot.

Wow. I read this and was thinking... cops are getting to be better shots. the first two rounds made contact?
Amazing.
If this had been NY, 7 bystandards would have been hit.

BS. This death was due to a dangerous development in police culture in recent decades.

I used to co-facilitate a group therapy session for Vietnam War vets twenty some odd years ago at the V.A.. There was this one guy who had a terrible time of it. He was an Airborne infantryman at one of the worst blood baths in the Vietnam War, Hamburger Hill, and never got over it. He'd sleep with a revolver under his pillow, and came close to killing his wife a few times during night terrors. This guy would sometimes go out on the city streets in the middle of the night with his revolver in Fort Lauderdale and start shooting out street lights. Cops would be called on a man with a gun shooting in the streets. He never got plugged full of holes by a black clad tactical team. Always just got asked by regular uniformed cops to drop his gun, then got driven home to his wife. And this guy had a revolver in hand each time the cops arrived. Back then there weren't tactical cops looking to plug someone, all tactical-like.

Not saying that's the best way for cops to handle that situation, but it's an example that demonstrates that it's not us "civilians" who have a distorted view on the case in question about modern police overreaction. This sort of reaction is not something that's always been the typical police response to reports of a man with a gun. It's something new, and bodes very ill for our future as a nation.

I don't hate cops, but there's enough ambiguity to have some doubts that the guy was really pointing a gun at anyone.

When surrounded by 3 cops, all with guns drawn, why would anyone attempt to pull & use a gun?

I'm just saying that the LEO's were predisposed to kill him & that is exactly what they did...........& IMO, it likely could have been handled better than it obviously was.

Did you not read his GF's deposition...............totally conflicts with what others "think" they saw.

Naturally the LEO's are going to saw they saw a gun either in his hand or a move towards one............otherwise they'd be admitting guilt & a wrongful shoot.

I know enough LEO's & lived with 2 & I know everything coming out of their mouths is not gospel.

We weren't there & as such, none of us will ever know what really happened since we didn't see it ourselves.

MM

The cops aren't good witnesses because they've got skin in the game, but the GF's word is gospel. And let's just ignore the testimony of MULTIPLE unbiased witnesses.

MM News...Fair and Balanced

I think the cops probably were pre-disposed to shoot drunk people who pointed a gun at them.

Maybe it's because they're a death squad. Or maybe it's because they didn't want to get shot.

I've corresponded with Bill Scott (the father) several times regarding stories he's written in AW&ST. While the story is 2 years old, I know the pain he's still experiencing

This is exactly what I was going to say regarding to the Las Vegas PD. They do get away with murder there, and it has been that way as long as I can remember.

Lamb once joked to my dad that he can have anyone disposed of. It was a direct threat to my dad, who was defending someone the powers in LV wanted gone.

Prayers sent for the girlfriend and family.

Morphine. IIRC correctly the report stated the drugs very well themselves been fatal as they where in such high levels.

Shootings, both police and civilian, are not generally judged by the facts after the incident. Its the facts and beliefs before the incident that matter. Yes sometimes mistakes happen, but I promise you, if your ever involved in a shooting, you will want it that way too. Just imagine you shoot someone who pulls a gun on you, it turns out to be a realistic looking toy gun. That toy gun wasn't going to hurt you, but you didn't know that, you believed you were in serious jeopardy. The facts after the shooting say you shot someone who wasn't going to harm you. If the facts and beliefs before the shooting led you to believe you where going to die(or be seriously hurt, or whatever burden in your state), then you are justified in what you did.

I can understand the first POPO shooting for whatever reason,

but why did the other two POPO have to shoot the victim, while he was lying on the ground, with two bullets in him already?

Sounds like a lot of back peddling and "what ifs" going on by the anti's. I do feel for the families loss as no one deserves to lose a family member that young no matter what the circumstances.

The only lesson here for a reasonable man is to be faster and shoot straighter than a cop if the cop goes for his weapon.

Action is faster than reaction - - - - every time.

LOL, because shooting cops usually works out well in the end.

Bluedreaux,

The pointing of the gun at the LEO's seems to be somewhat open to question.

Are you a LEO?

MM