Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62

Does the stock on the Black Bear have a raised cheek on left side?
Anyone shot one in 338 win mag?

This should give you an idea. I'm 5'10" with an athletic build. The stock and comb height fits my shape very well with my cheek weld and line of sight falling into the correct place. I'm currently running one scope with its center mounted 1.64" above the bore center line over the chamber. I have no difficulty making the transition between this scope and the fixed Rechnagel sights. Someone with a large round face or possibly a small skinny face may think differently.





Not in English, but it's easy to understand and will give you a good visual of the ergonomics.



Reference the 338WM, I don't think such animal exists. This particular model 85 was built by Sako with black bear and wild boar hunters in mind. They have it in the S-action chambered 308win and 338fed, and in the M-action chambered 30-06, 8x57, 9.3x62 and 9.3x66. I've yet to hear plans for a 338WM. Based on my limited involvement in getting this rifle imported, I understand that the original intent was for Beretta to market the 370Sako(9.3x66) in the US due to Federal Cartridge wanting to push that chambering. But as of date, these plans were changed and Beretta brought over the 308, 30-06, 9.3x62, and will soon bring over the 338federal.

Hope this helps.

Best

Thanks to you sir as that is what I was looking for. My reason for asking of the 338 winch is Beretta is listing it in 338 winch, 375 H&H, and 9.3X62 HERE
Thanks to this thread I now have a serious craving for a Black Bear!

That's a typo. JRSA534 is a 338WM Brown Bear, and JRSA537 is a 375H&H Brown Bear. The Brown Bear is built on the L-action. The third rifle listed JRSB554 is indeed a 9.3x62 Black Bear. That particular page you linked to is a bit goofed up. Even the description they give for the Black Bear is actually the description for the Brown Bear.

Here is the correct Sako description for the Black Bear, but keep in mind the additional chamberings in 338fed, 8x57, and 9.3x66.

http://kjergaardsports.com/wp-content/uploads/Sako-85-Black-Bear.pdf

Best

Gotcha. Thanks again.

Adding onto my thread, I had some spare time while down at the farm to work a bit more with the Black Bear. Forgive the photos and video because I was working out of my jeep with an old camera.

I stuck it up on a fence post as I guess this is now a mandatory requirement here on 24hourcampfire.



Nothing fancy, but I keep a homemade portable standing bench at the farm house so I can check zeros. It's not solid like a traditional seated bench, but I can easily move it around and it closely matches my zeros for field positions shooting off-hand, kneeling and sitting.



I have a lightweight portable target stand that holds a cardboard FBI Q target backer and I stick it out to whatever distance I need. I use a compact laser to verify distance and there are fields around the house where you could shoot out to a maximum of just under 1,000 yards if you cared to do so. Today I was shooting 100 yards to confirm my base zero and I shot field positions. I was using factory HDY 286grain fodder.



I also shot a bit testing the rifle with my favorite homemade staff and shooting sticks for off hand support. They worked very well at making otherwise long iffy off handed shots very solid and doable.



My shooting sticks easily convert from a one handed walking staff, to shooting sticks, or to two individual staffs.



The rifle fits me well and was very easy to shoot accurately. I had no problem shooting good groups with the factory Hornady ammo. Here's a three shot group from 100 yards off my standing bench. I'd expect my handloads from off a solid seated bench to be even better. The rifle is not finicky and does not walk as the barrel heat up.



As for feeding, all I can say is to repeat that this is the single best feeding factory stock production rifle I've ever handled. It will cleanly feed out of the mag box and then eject the fired case well clear of the rifle without a blemish. I shot a short video to show how quickly it will run through six rounds. The first one out the tube is a fired case which is cleanly ejected and thrown a fair distance farther than the remaining five loaded rounds from out of the mag box.



I can cycle the rifle and eject the fired case as hard as I please and it will leave the rifle without a blemish in perfect condition.

[img]http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7214/7168117199_ccdf5ebd5e.jpg[/img]

The rifle is ugly as sin, but it does work very well. It is very fun to shoot being it handles so well and is nearly foolproof. The ergonomics of this rifle fits me like a glove and it makes a great platform for the 9.3x62. I am more than pleased and look forward to working up my handloads. I'll keep you guys posted.

Later

Looks like very functional "meat rifle". The stock dims look about the same as that found on 1950s Sako sporter assembled around FN Mauser action. It was nice knockabout rifle with medium contour barrel and 100m & 200m rear folders chambered for the glorious .375 Magnum. I remember it was easy to carry, but what I remember the most was brutal recoil it produced when fired.

Though my Black Bear is lighter, I have these calculated figures on hand using the same rifle weight of 8.5 pounds. Looking at the numbers for recoil energy in ft-lbs and recoil velocity in fps, on paper this is how they stack up:

375H&H...w/ 270grain load = 41.8 ft-lbs / 17.8 fps
338WM...w/ 250grain load = 35.7 ft-lbs / 16.5 fps
350RM....w/ 250grain load = 29.0 ft-lbs / 14.8 fps
338-06...w/ 250grain load = 28.2 ft-lbs / 14.6 fps
9.3x62...w/ 250grain load = 25.7 ft-lbs / 14.0 fps
35Whel..w/ 250grain load = (about same as 9.3x62)
30-06....w/ 180grain load = 19.7 ft-lbs / 12.2 fps

Using the 30-06 and 375H&H as bookends for comparison, there's a marked increase in recoil between the two being doubled with some extra recoil added in for spare change. The 338WM is at the upper end of that gap being closer to the H&H as the 9.3x62 is at the bottom end of the gap being closer to the 30-06. In my quest for finding the biggest bang for the buck, I'm really liking the big gun performance offered by the 9.3x62 for the little increase in recoil added over a 30-06. It has a marked reduction in felt recoil compared to that Sako .375 Magnum you remember. This rifle is a pussycat in comparison.

Best

You are massaging those numbers to make 9,3x62 look like pussycat. The poor Rimless Nitro Express Holland is throwing the 270gr slug at over 2800fps with >85grains of powder. That is where the dreadful 41.8ft-lbs comes from.

Not sure I follow?? I used my load data for the H&H:

270grain bullet, 83grains powder, 2,690fps, 8.5lbs rifle.

Loaddata recoil calculator crunches those numbers at 41.79ft-lbs of measured free recoil, which I rounded to 41.8ft-lbs. Loaddata is a bit more forgiving compared to Charlie Sisk's recoil calculator which crunches the same numbers to 46ft-lbs of measured recoil. The numbers you gave of 85grains and 2,800fps on the Sisk calculator runs 51ft-lbs!!

Point I made was the rifle you remember and described was magnum chambered using a larger magnum load of powder. The 9.3x62 I'm describing is a non-magnum chambering using a smaller non-magnum load of powder more related to the 30-06. I've had such H&H for a number of years, and yes, IMO, the 9.3x62 is a pussycat in comparison because of the smaller case capacity and reduced powder charge.

Best

Oh I'm just fooling about that is nice rifle much nicer then CZ500 'Medium' Mannlicher crowbar I used to own briefly. Surprisingly sightless 'American-style' ones with composite stock and 23" barrels are sweet handling rifles. If I got one of those instead it would still be with me. Anyhow I feel blessed as today I actually held 30 shot Keltec .22magnum pistol which is made of unobtainum at this time.

GaryVA

You are indeed fortunate that your rifle ejects the rounds cleanly.

I recently bought the same rifle in the same caliber and believe me, the empty cases were hitting the bottom of my scope, so much so it was chipping the finish off the scope.

The rifle was sent back to the agents here and it came back about 10 days later. Their gunsmith acknowledged that this was happening but stated that there was nothing that could be done about it.

To cut a long story short, the importers graciously accepted the return of the rifle for a full refund.

The problem does exist in at least the 30-06length actioned Sako 85. Don't know about the longer action models. The local Beretta Rep also saw the problem & agreed that this was indeed happening, though he did not think it was a big deal. . To me it was unacceptable.

I should also like to point out that I have had the same rifle in 308 for some time and that this ejection problem does not occur with the shorter action.

Its too bad to read the consensus was that "there was nothing that could be done about it" and "it was no big deal". That is not customer service or being attentive to a design flaw. That is sloppy approach that tells the consumers they aren't thought of very highly. Shame on Beretta/Sako.

Bigwhoop

Yes - you got a point - however they were quick to offer me the option of the refund so I guess thats fair enough. Makes one wonder how many times they have come across this problem before.

I now know of at least one other rifle here that does the same thing - an 85 in 30-06 but the owner, a friend of mine says it does not bother him too much. He thought I was making too much of a fuss out of a minor thing and he may be right!

Sorry to hear that mlg, mine is pretty close to perfect straight from the Sako box. Smooth bolt, slick feed, and it refuses to misfeed no matter how hard I try.

Kinda odd that a smith would say your particular rifle cannot be made to feed reliably. I hunt with a guild smith who has taken production rifles that fed like can crushers and turned them into slick feeding machines, don't see how your 85 would be any different. I've run the 85 chambered as large as the 375H&H, and though not as slick out the box as this 9.3x62, feeding for that big cartridge was reliable and well above average. If that huge cartridge fed well, don't see why yours cannot be tuned. Quite a number of production rifles have benefited from a bit of quality feed work.

By any chance did you shoot any video of your rifle jamming up? I've yet to see one with this problem and am curious to see the mechanics in action. If available, I'd appreciate if you would post it.

Thanks

GaryVA

No I did not take a vid. To be quite honest I dont know that it would have been easy to show on a video. When I showed the Beretta rep it took about 4-5 goes before he realised that the ejecting case, was, infact, hitting the scope tube. It happens real fast.

I suspect that this is the case many times with this rifle as it happens almost too fast for the eye to see - but it certainly does happen - the "ping" when it hits the scope is quite audible and the dented case mouths are further evidence.

I really cannot understand why some rifles do it and some dont (give same action & caliber).

They did offer me another rifle in same caliber but I at that time did not see the point. I was almost tempted by the offer of a 338 fed too and if I had not been planning to use the rifle on Buff I may well have done.

Anyway good luck with your rifle. My 308 is very slick & absolutely no problems with that rifle!

Rgds

mlg

Don't think too many are running this S&B, but if you are, thought I'd share my experience with covers. I disliked the factory stretch covers but didn't want to run the scope naked. I tried the Scope Shield, but I'm a hardcore scope tube handle grabber and couldn't warm up to the full neoprene cover ergonomics. I ended up taking the drive to town where I went through a pile of Butler Creek caps to find the correct sizes. Ended up the 2A-OBJ and the 18-EYE were a perfect fit. So anyone running this scope interested in the BC caps, that's the sizes to get. Butler Creek had a new 1-piece tactical flip scope cover at the SHOT SHOW which I like, but I haven't seen them hit the shelf yet. If they come out with a set that fits, I may make the switch.

In addition, last time out I got the actual bullet drop on paper for my standard 285/286grain load out to 250 yards in 25yard increments. Took a Word program and made up a table and simple drop chart which I mounted on the scope tube. It covers range, drop, come-ups, and crosswind for a quick peek and easy in the field corrections. I've got this load dialed in real good.

I'm waiting for re-supply of my 250grain components so I can get that load dialed in. I'll post those results when I get 'em.

Later

Sorry to bump an old thread...but this rifle in a 30-06 (and the Kodiak in .338 WM) has piqued my interest.

GaryVA - Great pics and information! The Black Bear version appears to be blued...is this correct? Not a fan of blued rifles and much prefer stainless, but the BB is lighter, and according to reports, better balanced. I also prefer a 30-06 over a .338 WM (Kodiak). Might be worth the compromise....

Yes, blued. This thread has gotten a bit long so it's easy to miss some of the posted info. This was discussed earlier in the thread. All the working inards on the rifle are same as a stainless, only change is the receiver and barrel. As I've already noted, I expect zero issues from the substrate on those parts.



I've already owned a Kodiak 375H&H. I'm a bigger fan of the 416Rem, and am also a huge fan of a light 416Rem built on an M70, so the Kodiak is gone. In comparison to the Kodiak, I much prefer this Black Bear, it is a much handier rifle, by far.

Best

Thanks, Gary! I just found your response today. I really liked what I read about the Black Bear, but I just can't become a fan of a blued for my daily driver. I have a Kodiak .338 WM enroute, so we'll see! I think I would have rather had a .284 or .30 caliber than a .338, but I'll give it the 'ol college try.

Thanks again!
Joe