Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Which 1911

I have a number of rifles, but only one handgun (Ruger GP 100). I have always liked the 1911, so I believe that will be what I try to acquire a good used one. I would like to get a stainless compact model, not full size, as I will use it for carry and already have a fairly nice holster for one. I'm sure there are a number of good choices out there, but two manufacturers that come to mind are Colt and Kimber.

My question is what models should I look at for around a grand? Seems like I have heard with the Kimber's that some have external and others have internal extractors. Which is the better of the two and how would a person with little experience tell the difference?

I have a Colt series 80 Officers model in 45acp (lots of work done to it)that I've carried for 20+ years NEVER a problem
I believe that Ruger will build a smaller one one day since their SR1911 has been so well recieved.
one more thing,you can hide a full size 1911 quite well with a good belt/holster.

Kimber, Springfield, Sig, S&W E-series or my favorite Dan Wesson. Good luck trying to find a Colt.

I listed my Kimber in the classifieds. **** Shameless plug****

Colt XSE Commander is a reliable bet. For a bit more the Wiley Clapp Commander is a heck of a choice, too.

Fixed it.

I'm very happy with my Springfield Range Officer. Shoots way better than I can.

General things to avoid;
External extractors (or other proprietary parts), series 80-style safeties, military sights, and nonstandard barrel lengths.

Brands I personally would avoid: Kimber, Sig, S&W (at least the models I know of)...

If I ever get a compact, it'll be an RIA Compact Tactical. Haven't had my RIA government model fail yet.

The further you go from the original design, the more problems you're likely to have with it. The lightweight, chopped down, ones are generally the most likely to be problematic. The least likely to be problematic are the full sized, all steel, renditions. Some will disagree, but this opinion comes from 32 years experience and literally dozens of 1911s in all sorts of trendy configurations. If you can get your hands on an un-messed-with pre-series 70 Colt Government Model you will almost certainly be very happy. Of all my 1911s, including an Ed Brown and a Les Baer, that's my favorite, and the only one I carry concealed.

And that brings me to another point: Chopping down a 1911 doesn't increase it's concealability very much. Nor does it increase comfort of all day carry very much, even the ones with the alloy frames. It does, however, make it a lot harder to shoot well and tending towards less reliability.

Gledeasy,

I'm a newbie to the world of everyday carry and 1911's. About 17 months ago I went through the same search you've begun. I too went in search of a compact, thinking it would be easier to carry and conceal. Some folks told me that if I was going to get a 1911, there are no significant advantages to getting a compact/officer model over a full-size. I decided to split the difference and ended up buying a Kimber Pro (full size grip w/ a 4" barrel) Crimson Carry II.

17 months later I have to agree that the smaller size doesn't translate into a real world advantage for carrying it. I have also carried my wife's Kimber Ultra (small grip, 3" barrel) Stainless TLE. There isn't a measurable advantage there either. Here's why: Whatever preparations you have to make to carry a full-size 1911 you still have to make to carry a compact 1911. You still have to put on your carry belt; you still have to dress to conceal it; and, you still have to adjust everything to get as comfortable as possible. In the end, it doesn't really matter whether it's a full-size or a compact, you still have to go through these motions, and once you have a 1911 (any 1911) on your person, the size of it doesn't measurably affect your comfort or the gun's concealability. My next 1911 will be a full-size model and I have plans to carry it.

If you're already sold on a compact/officer model, you might want to try shooting one. I'm an average shot with a handgun, and my accuracy goes downhill measurably when switching from a 4" bbl to a 3". I also struggle when drawing that short grip from a holster. For me, there's just not enough there to grab. Your experience might be different, but you might want to find out before you go spend your $1K.

As for a manufacturer, read a bit about Colt's Series 80 type safety and make your own choice. I agree that the Series 80 safety is virtually unnecessary and was likely instituted to please the lawyers. But, for the everyday consumer, it doesn't make a huge difference. The biggest complaint about them is that they add some additional internal parts, making the trigger heavier, harder to adjust and simply changes the "feel." You can also shear it off if you squeeze the grip safety while sliding the slide back into place. But, once you know not to do that, it isn't a problem.

My family's data sample of 2 has left me very pleased with Kimber. The guns function virtually flawlessly (I had a problem with the laser grips, but I'll get to that). I tried several self-defense loads in each and they shoot it all just fine. My Pro initially had trouble feeding Rainier 230 gr HP's. I bought this bullet for use in practice and shooting bowling pins, because they were the next cheapest thing up from cast lead. When loaded to book lengths, they would jam at the base of the feed ramp. I called Rainier and the guy said to shorten them up--a bunch. So I did, and they shoot fine now. Every once in awhile one will stick (less than 1 in 100) but I don't carry that bullet for EDC, and given the cost, it's worth it to me to shoot it. Every other bullet has been flawless. RN, FP, SWC, lead, FMJ, 185gr, 200gr, 230gr, it just doesn't matter.

I mentioned that I have a set of Crimson Trace Laser Grips on my 1911. Here's my two cents on those (even though you didn't ask): Don't bother unless you plan to shoot a competition with them in an environment where you can see them. I use my laser grips when shooting bowling pins at an indoor range. Other than that, they are turned off.

Laser grips sound like a cool idea, but they just don't work reliably enough. First, you cannot see the red dot in regular daylight. Really. If you have to aim your gun at something/someone on a normal sunlit day, you cannot see the red dot. At night, or at an indoor range, it's very visible, but why get in the habit of using/relying on a sighting system that only works half the time? I also went through a time when my grips wouldn't stay on when I wanted them to. Also a problem. It turned out that a battery manufacturer was making their batteries about 1/1000 of an inch too small, causing the connection to short out. It ultimately was simple fix--get different batteries. But, knowing that they can fail unexpectedly is another reason to avoid them. I don't get terribly emotional about gun-related stuff, so I actual enjoy using them at the range just to see/hear other guys go ballistic about how laser grips will get you killed. Even though I agree with them, I still use my laser just to stir the pot. And, I am faster when shooting with them over iron sights.

So, to summarize, if I were you, I'd do this:
1. Make a decision about whether you really need/want a compact model, based mainly on how well you shoot one.
2. Make a decision about how you feel about a Series 80 style safety.
3. Go shopping. Pick a gun that fits your hand and "feels" right. It's just like looking at a group of women, a lot of them will catch your eye, but there will be one that you fall in love with. I don't think there is a "wrong" choice. If there was a clear favorite, there wouldn't be any debate. Colt, Kimber, Ruger, whatever. Just pick one.

And if you care, if you were to let me pick your 1911 for you, I'd likely get you a stainless Ruger. I haven't shot one yet, but I drooled on one at the gun show Saturday. For the money, I can't find anything that I even remotely dislike. I haven't checked myself, but everybody tells me that they are a Series 70 type design. I like the grips, the trigger, the 3-dot sights, and the overall look. For a smidge over $700, you can still have a couple hundred to get a quality holster.



Good luck! Be sure to report what you bought!

IMO, if a guy is only going to own one 1911 it should be a Colt.

As for the $1,000 market, there's really no significant quality differences between the major players. I tend to favor Colt and Springfield mostly due to personal taste.

In Colt lingo the typical pistol sizes are:

Government Model (5", 7+1)
Commander (4.25", 7+1)
Concealed Carry Officers (CCO) (4.25", 6+1)
Officer (3.5", 6+1)

Modern magazines often add one round to the capacities shown above. All models can be had with a steel or aluminum alloy frame. As others have mentioned, I wouldn't go 'shorter' than the 4.25" models, but I prefer a lightweight frame in a carry pistol.

Here's a S&W with an external extractor (directly left of the ejection port):



For another Colt plug, shown below is the XSE Commander with a stainless slide and aluminum frame. Colt improved the frame cuts and grip safety a couple years ago (as shown) so I would stay with recent production:

You're thinking of Swartz-type systems (used by Kimber). The grip safety has no bearing on Colt series 80 systems and it doesn't matter if it's depressed while during assembly.

Sorry--I got the shearing off part included with the series 80 part--you're right!

There's been some interesting replies on this thread, for sure. Waders likes his Kimbers, but a lot of folks have posted that their Kimber experiences sucked. Ditto with JOG and his Colt's.

I'm no 1911 expert, but I've owned Springfield, Kimber, Colt's, Rock River, some Phillipine's Brand X's, and several custom 1911's, and I've shot most of them a lot. I've owned good and not-so-good models from all of these manufacturers. The only one I hated and got rid of very quickly was a Colt 1991 Commander. At present I have two Kimber's both higher-end models, a schitt-box filipino gun that I'm working on as a longstanding project just because I'm stubborn, and a Mark Morris custom-built Springfield that I love like no other 1911 I've ever shot. I'm very impressed with the S&W 1911's, particularly the Scandium frame guns, and I know pro's who really like them as well. I don't know enough about the Ruger to know if it's good or bad, but Rugers of any description rarely suck, in my experience.

All of my 1911's that are still with me have had high round counts through them. As in 10,000+ rounds at least, and the MMC is probably pushing 60,000 with one rebuild and due for another soon. Those that couldn't cut it were down the road in a hurry.

I've come to a few conclusions about 1911's through these experiences.

First, the 1911 design isn't idiot-proof like, say, a Glock. You can screw up your 1911 without hardly trying, some models worse than others. The fullsize guns are in general better and more reliable than the smaller versions. So get a fullsize for your first 1911. And your second, and your third. After you've got 3 fullsize guns in your safe, you can branch out into the cutdown versions. More on that later.

Second, I've found that if you spend a bit more for a better product up front, you'll have a more reliable gun for the long run. The threshold seems to be about $1500. Guns like the Kimber TLE II, Springfield Operator, Les Baer Premere, and so forth. Most of the 1911's carried by guys who shoot pistols for a living are in this class or higher. Tim Lau and Hilton Yam of 10-8, very high-speed lo-drag guys, advise you to spend at least $2500-$3000 for a 1911 you're going to bet your life on on a daily basis. Sure, you can get a reliable gun for $700 or less, but your chances of getting a lemon at that price are high. Pay $1500+, and lemons are a lot less frequent.

Third, to keep your 1911 running you need to have a good 1911-smith to help you. Not a gunsmith, not even a pistol-smith; I mean a 1911-smith. If you have any mechanical ability, it's worth becoming enough of a shade-tree 1911-smith yourself to do the routine stuff. But to really make the 1911 sing, you need a guy who is an expert on your side.

Finally, you need to consider Jeff Cooper's dictum: A man needs a minimum of 3 1911 pistols. One to carry, one to keep as a spare for when your primary gun goes down, and a third one at the gunsmith's being fixed. Cooper's experience was based on older pistols before the better manufacturing techniques of today, but there's some wisdom in what he said. When I was running 1911's in active pistol competition, I had four guns in rotation, and one of 'em was nearly always at my 1911-smith's place getting fixed at any given point in time.

I know there are shooters who will dispute this last point, but most of them don't shoot 15,000+ rounds in a single competition season like Cooper did or like I have done. You start getting up into that level of use, and 1911's need maintenance and repair at a higher rate than SIG's, Glocks, or some other designs.

That's just my dos centavos worth. YMMV. Good luck and good shooting with whatever pistol you buy!

Fully Loaded Springfield

Well, I guess you are completely and totally FOS Doc, along with yours truly.

I posted awhile back about being on site at a DOD contract facility when some MARSOC Marines were there doing a week of pistol training. I was told by one of the instructors running the course that the hardest working SOB there was their armorer. They were shooting 500rd/day. Several here posted that I was completely and totally FOS.

That instructor happens to be one of the top 1911 pistolsmiths in the world, he built 1911's for six of the top ten finishers in last year's Bianchi Cup. He says get a Glock or M&P for defensive/combat use. Larry Vickers, also one the world's premier 1911 pistolsmiths, says get a Glock. I guess me, yourself, Larry and Jay are all FOS.

Right, external extractors suck and blow. That's why John Moses didn't use one on the Hi-Power? Larry Vickers said if anything on a 1911 needed to be redesigned, the extractor was it.

Well, TAK, I don't know that I deserve to be included in your esteemed--er, I mean FOS--company, but I'm honored to be so considered!

Funny thing... I know a very experienced instructor who quit teaching civilians about 4-5 years ago because he was spending all his time giving instruction to SOCOM personnel who says the same thing. He wouldn't exactly yell at us if we brought 1911's to class ("at least you brought a 45", he would say), but he definitely encouraged us to buy a Glock 21 or 30 and carry it for serious use.

I guess Henk is FOS, too, huh?

I don't avoid them on other pistols. I avoid them on 1911s.

Larry Vickers is not someone I trust over myself. Beyond that, I'm not a fan of adding proprietary parts to guns, especially well-proven designs.