Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Kid gun consideration...Ruger American?

I didn't measure the Vanguard's barrel but it was too heavy for her to hold just in a free hand standing position.The Handi Rifle felt nearly as heavy to me but she could hold it fairly well.I don't know the length of the barrel on the Handi but it was a good bit shorter than the Vanguard youth.

For deer: .243.

............Why not just go with a Ruger compact in a 223 or 243?

Now I know the 16.5" barrels are louder, but your 8 year old should be always be wearing good hearing protection ANYWAY. And there won`t be all that much of a difference in noise or blast to the ears between an 18" or a 20" tube vs a 16.5" barrel WITH good ear protection worn. And the loadings can always be reduced if you are a reloader which reduces the noise levels down even further.

The new Ruger compacts have a 12.5" LOP, are about 5 1/2 to 6 lbs, 35.5" long, and its dimensions should be much easier for her to handle all the way around in every respect.

Later as she grows, she can use a simple slip on recoil pad to increase the LOP by an inch or leave it off when wearing thicker clothing. With my slip on pad I do the same.

I have a 300 WSM MK2 Ruger Frontier. At 6'3" 235 lbs, the darn thing even for me still isn`t too small by any means. And btw my hearing is still excellent as I protect my hearing.

The Ruger compact`s OAL is a perfect size for an 8 year old to get started with and it will do very well even into adulthood.

I did look at one of the Ruger compacts in 223.My daughter wasn't with me on that trip though.I am considering one now as well.The only thing though is that at $633 from Buds they are close to the Savage Lady Hunter in price and weight.My initial research on the Ruger Compact Hawkeye doesn't show too good accuracy.I have read that Ruger considers 2" at 50 yards acceptable,and have read a few other bad accuracy reports.

I am also now looking into the new Savage Lightweight hunter in 223.It weighs 5.5 lbs and has a 1:9 twist and is $724.00 at Buds. We will try to look at the Lady Hunter and Lightweight Hunter in hand the next couple weeks.

I keep looking at the less expensive rifles and being dissapointed in quality,so I increase my price range and look some more.With the Savage LW Hunter going for $724,I might as well get the Kimber Montana and be done with it except for cutting the stock.The Savage LW Hunter has been getting good reviews though.On the other hand it's no Kimber.I'm going to have to step back and think about all the options a bit.

RHC,

FWIW, I was leaning towards the Ruger Compact (6.8 spc) , until I actually had my son handle it side-by-side with the Remington Model 7 youth/compact, Marlin XS7 Youth, and the Savage youth. I kept my mouth shut and just handed Connor rifles . It was obvious which fit/felt better by just watching his facial expressions.

The Ruger Compact is great in theory, but he struggled with it more than the others. Believe me, I wanted it to work. In the end, the Model 7 may cost a bit more, but he's worth it to me.

george

..................Don`t know what particular research sources you`re looking at, but my Frontier new from the box using the first 3 boxes factory ammo never had gotten above 1 5/8" groupings.

Secondly, as I tailored my handloads to what the rifle liked in terms of powders, bullets, seating depths etc, the groups tightened up even better.

And thirdly, since I recently had the rifle bedded and free floated, my groupings are even tighter. Some groups are down to 1/2" with overlapping holes. And that`s measured from outside to outside, NOT center hole to center hole.

Ruger a few years back did have accuracy issues. Since they started making their own barrels their accuracy issues have greatly diminished for the most part.

Compared with any research which may not be reliable and are usually written in terms of generalities, I put far more credibility in tailoring handloads to what an individual rifle prefers rather than assuming through research that certain rifles are not as accurate.

Imo after one tries everything including tailoring handloads and the rifle is still not accurate, then there is more viable ground to stand on.

Bigsqueeze
I do agree with you concerning accuracy but I still like to try to find reviews from a lot of different sources.Some reported fair accuracy,mostly in 308 but a lot reportes 3-4" groups at 100 yards,giving the very thin barrels as a possible cause.

I have read a lot of reports of great accuracy with Rugers full size rifles,except for the short period when they had barrel issues with a second party supplier.I don't have any personal experience with Rugers.

I had no accuracy issues with my Ruger compact's in 7mm-08 and 308.

FWIW, have you considered the Winchester Featherweight Compact?

I know stainless and synthetic stock is good for something that may take a beating and I have a few. However, that first deer rifle given to a child may be one he/she holds on to for life and may be passed down to their next generation. A classic rifle may be in order.

Again, just my two cents.

I had a chance to buy a Ruger American today that had 4 rounds through it. The fellow said it kicked too much.

She is going to need something under 6 lbs and in 223.I tried her today by letting her shoot my Sako L579 243.I had to help her support the barrel.I just held on at the sling in case she dropped it.She was able to get it on her shoulder and fire a shot.

I watched how the recoil affected her.It gave her quite a surprise and she nearly lost her shooting glasses from the blast.I give her credit though,she wanted to shoot it again,and did with about the same results.

She is only 8 years old 4'4" and 65 lbs.It looks like I am limited to the Savage UL Hunter 223,CZ 527 in 223 or Kimber Montana 223.She is probably not really big enough but I taught her gun safety last season by allowing her to carry her BB gun with us sguirell hunting.She has been watching our deer all summer and really wants to shoot one this season.

..........The newer Ruger compacts do have the thinner barrels. My Frontier`s tube is thicker. But it is also heavier with a listed weight of 6.75 lbs before scope.

But with that stated, a few makers manufacture thin tubes.

Thinner barrels or not, one needs to still go through the vetting process to determine which powders, which bullets and which OALs (bullet jumps) any individual rifle prefers for best accuracy.

Lets assume you buy a Ruger compact or any other brand of compact rifle. No matter how much research you do or how many opinions you get, there are no guarantees that you won`t get 2" to 4" groupings using factory ammo regardless of rifle brand you buy.

And if you did, I can almost guarantee ya that if you tailor the loads to "that" rifle, your groupings will shrink considerably.

Using factory ammo should not be any benchmark for determining best possible accuracys from any rifle. Only reloading experimentation assures that.

However there are a few cases (probably in the vast minority) that no matter what is done, a rifle just won`t shoot well.

While I do agree that experimentation and possibly some alteration will help most any rifle's accuracy,I have found some rifles over the years that just shoot better.My Sako rifles have out performed any centerfire I have ever owned,with many different factory loadings.My stock Anschutz will outshoot any other stock rimfire,I have ever owned.

I do think there are very few rifles produced today that just shoot bad, but wouldn't anyone rather buy one that had a lot of good reports rather than one that had a lot of bad reports?
The most important thing in that is to take anything read on the web with a grain of salt.I don't automatically disreguard a rifle because of a handful of less than steller reports,but I am cautious when I see a pattern from a lot of different sources.

Having said all that,I haven't completly disreguarded the Ruger Compact Hawkeye.I was just reporting my initial findings,while searching for reviews.

I hesitated recommending the Marlin XS7 because the one I own absolutely refuses to feed from either side of the magazine. It's the heavy barreled 308 and essentially a target rifle for me, but if it is supposed to feed, then it should feed. But it certainly does not!

I will add one more to the list not on your list, a Stevens 200 in 223 for multiple reasons.

1. Inexpensive, less than 300.00 if you shop
2. Accurate (typically)
3. 22" barrel and fairly light
4. Stock is easily painted to match the daughter's vision and improves the ugly
5. Good truck gun for Dad if she upgrades
6. Good donor action for resale

I would not put a lot of emphasis on your daughter's ability to hold steady from a standing position. I would put a lot of emphasis on her ability to shoot from the bench then from field positions because it builds confidence.

Based on your daughters age, height and weight, she'll need a LOP closer to 12".

BTDT with both my boys and numerous kids I've introduced to hunting and shooting.

I wouldn't discount the NEF Youth rifles.

My youngest son utilized a NEF Youth Lite Handi-Rifle .22 Hornet for a few years. Synthetic stock (11 3/4" LOP) 20" barrel and weighed in at 5 1/4 lbs. With 45gr. Nosler Solid Base bullets, he took several deer, exotics, and feral hogs.

A hammer extension is available, which makes it easier to cock (especially with a scope mounted).

After my youngest son out grew the Hornet, I gave it to my pard as he has three youngsters. They've been laying the whammy on deer and hogs too.

Remington 700 is another option. Stocks are easy to come by, and relatively cheap.

A Kimber Montana .223 is indeed a very nice platform.... but is definitely not cheap. Extra Montana stocks I believe can be purchased through Kimber. Every once in awhile a stock shows up on Gunbroker.

I managed to snag two via Gunbroker, and cut one to 12" and the other 12.5" LOP
My future grand kids will be well provisioned!

FOsteology
With the Montana 223 is it your plan to try to put the cut stocks back together or just purchase a new stock when they are older?

Even though it's not easy for me to spend that much,I try to practice the cry once principal whenever possible.I do however hate to cut such an expensive stock,knowing she will need a new one in a few years.

When we tried some youth models at a local GS the Youth Vanguard stock seemed to fit her,though it was way too heavy.The owner measured it at 12 3/4" when I asked him the LOP.

No, I currently have three stocks for my Montana .223

In addition to the stock (unaltered) on my Kimber Montana .223, I was fortunate to snag two extra Montana 84M stocks off Gunbroker. One was cut to 12" and the other 12.5" LOP.

That's the way.

There are infinite #'s of rifles available in mostly standard LOP's. Makes sense to buy a donor stock and modify it, eventually adding spacers in front of the butt plate as they grow (save the bobbit).

note: With care, a Japanese saw and simple miter box can do the shortening w/o chipping the edge.

And another worthless no help statement from swampy.

To add:
7. Comes in 1 in 9 twist for heavier deer bullets.
8. Factory youth stacks available for low prices.