Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Advice on binoculars...

It is all just words....what is best for you is what suits your vision.
Just be aware of the pit-falls, like rotten 13 yo Daughters that decide to abscond with the Zeiss Victories that you recently purchased.......it will probably take me another twenty years to afford some more for myself.

I guess you'd have to tell me what you think premium is. I think I have owned premium glass. 20+ years ago I lived aboard a sail boat. We had premium glass, porros on that boat. We couldn't have distortion, they had to handle extreme light and glare. Good glass, quality construction, good coatings were paramount. When I got off the boat I bought roofs. Then I bought porros, roofs and porros. I've had low-end, mid and high-end depending on what I need.

I don't think you know what my opinion is, because I don't think you can pick it up though it's been repeated. I've said that specs aren't the only thing to go by, that manufacturers (and owners btw) highlight the specs that highlight their product. You in fact don't seem to care about the things where porros excel (light transmission, 3D image) based on your post. I also said people need to look through glass to see what works for them. A statement like this, "premium roof's are so superior in just about every way to a porro like the Minox BP that this is a waste of time to argue about" is meaningless. It's just not fact. It's opinion based on personal preference.

It's not my opinion porros will typically have better light transmission, 3D image quality, etc. That's fact. It's personal opinion when someone says roofs have better ergonomics. Porros are roughly the same size, but wider and shorter instead of longer and narrower, and in some cases are smaller overall. They weigh roughly the same, and in some cases less. That's not my opinion, it's fact. My opinion, again, since you don't get it, is that people will pick different binoculars for different reasons, regardless of the specs, because there will be different things they find important to them, because of and regardless of the actual/factual binocs they hold in their hand (i.e., 90% light transmission is more important to some people, regardless of the FACT, not opinion it's less than a lower priced porro). People should look through binocs to find what works for them, in the conditions (when/where) they will use them.

Sorry you got all butt-hurt thinking I don't like roofs, or the fact that porros excel in some areas. If it makes you feel all warm inside, I happen to own several roofs and one porro right now. Your choice to own whatever you own is best for you, and I'm happy you found what works for you.

Glad you like your Minox porro's.

Let me try this again (for the last time). In the vast majority of binoculars, light transmission values are 90% and under, including porros. By your own admission you say you are aware of weaknesses in reviews etc. Yet you seem to be pretty desperately trying to hang your hat on the supposed 94.5% transmission of the Minox as evidence of porro superiority, even when far more expensive porros from Nikon and Swarovski are some 4-5% less than the that. You speak of theoretical transmission differences and then trot out the differences in the Albinos transmission values of the Ziess Victory and the Minox, which is still about 1% higher than the Zeiss. I assume you are aware of the light path geometry of the Abbe-Konig prism of the Zeiss and the roof prism path of the Minox. I am assuming that you know the AK prism of the Zeiss bends light three times, only one of the bends is 90*, while all four times light is bent in passing a porro prism, all four bends are 90*. Since you know this, you can do the total degrees the light path gets bent for yourself. This gives the AK prism the theoretical advantage over the porro. The lower rate of the Zeiss may serve as the first clue that the Minox number is an abberation. Doesn't mean the Minox is not a good binocular, just that that high of a transmission value has to be viewed with some skepticism...nothing more. That and the fact that one can find the high example of the Minox does not equate to the light transmission advantage you would like to see. Again, yes there are theoretical advantages to the porro, but they pretty much fade away in light of reality.

As far as porros getting better at the same rate as roofs, sorry that evidence is not present. Binocular manufacturers have virtually abandoned the porro prism binocular. While porros remain available, they are predominately resident in lower price echelons. The Leupold Yosemite and itys related design siblings di a lot to give us great optics for astoundingly little $$, there is really nothing new there. The only "currently available" porro that that comes to mind, which has some of the modern design ameneties that are technologically available to be applied to porros is the Vixen Foresta 7x50. This has ED glass, APO objectives, improved, glass, and state of the art coatings. Sounds like a good instrument and I'm not delving further into what is there in addition to the Vixen. It's too bad the porro has been abandoned.

The list of roof prisms from $150-500 that have pretty much state of the art designs, glass, and coatings runs into many manufacturers, Alpen, Bushnell, Burris, Kruger, Leupold, Minox, Meopta, Nikon, Pentax, Steiner, Vortex, and Zen Ray (probably missed some) and dozens of models. The same thing is not true with porros. So I stick to my original contention that roofs have improved far more than porros.

Enjoy your Minox.

How about this, you're right, I'm wrong. You win! This has nothing to do with whether I like the Minox. It has to do with the original post and my response. The OP was asking about porros. I gave my opinion about them because I own them. The OP can take it or leave it.

Also, I'm not hanging my hat on superiority of any design. You just can't understand. As a matter of fact I posted that the Zeiss has some better qualities than the Minox. I also said it's a personal decision and no one binocular is going to be favored by all people, regardless of specs or quality of components (different people prefer different aspects of the binocular). You seem to have misinterpreted that to mean I think that only light transmission is important and I don't value the benefits some roof designs have to offer. I think you're just too dense and too stuck on the roof vs porro debate. It was never about that. It's about educating the OP based on his original question, not about you and me or Minox or any other brand or design. If someone wants to use a specific site to reference values, ok, I'll use it too, but when it doesn't support the argument the way you or anyone or even I want, it can't then be unimportant. It's either a [bleep] place to find value or it's not. That's why I said specs can be misleading. You probably didn't get that though.

If light transmission is important to the OP, he'd probably want to know. Probably wants to know the opinion about 3D since he brought it up. But it's not the only question and again it's a personal decision and no one binocular is going to be favored by all people, regardless of specs or quality of components (which is a direct quote from my post).

So, climb down from your high-horse and realize my "argument" has nothing to do with my choice(s). It has to do with the OP question and a reasonable answer to his questions. Your roofs are obviously the best for you. They are probably the best for the rest of us, we just don't know it yet because anyone that doesn't have what you have is just too dense. Seems the OP wants to know about porros. Why don't you address that factually and not just taking positives about porros to be some sort of attack on what you own. Thank me and if you need anything else I'll call you.

The decision between Porro and Roof is purely a personal preference. For me, the I just could not wrap my hands around the bulky barrel of the Porro binoculars to really enjoy them.

Wow! My initial post was seriously not a troll, but might as well have been Some good info there amongst the heated arguments though. In the end I went with a set of "mint, never been out of the house" Nikon 8x32 SE's from a member here, for a whole lot less than preordering the heavier Zen Ray Prime HD's. That means instead of selling my 6 months old Minox BV 10x42 BR roof prism bins ($149 delivered thanks to one of Doug's closeouts) to finance the Zen Ray Prime HD's, I will keep those for inclement weather or when I feel I need a little longer reach. I rarely get rain in my California hunting, so I think the SE's will do me fine. I like the idea of greater depth od field or what ppl term "3-D" vision, the Nikons are 25%+ lighter than the Zen Rays, and for me I prefer the shorter wider ergonomics both for holding and for toting on my chest via quick release X-back shoulder straps. Down the road someday the Minox roof prism 10x will get upgraded as needed.

Thanks again for all the input!

Enjoy!

deepcdiver,

It seems all the optics sites are snippie. After discovering they were worse than here and didn't like to hear the truth about anything that was not their brand I left. I called a friend who frequents different sites after I went to that optics only site. Anyway I asked him about it. He told me,
"I know it."
"O, you visited that site?"
"No. But every optics site I visited was the same."

It looks like you just have to get used to it.

Enjoy indeed.

You have bought yourself one of the finest optically 8x32 / 30 mm binoculars ever made! And that is the case- whether you want to talk roof or porro.

IMO- you will be wowed by the view if you have never looked through a Nikon SE.

Check out the classifieds, I have for sale a great 8x32 SE.
They are the one binocular that some use as a reference standard.

I have another one, so this one is for sale.

I so wish there was an 8x40/42 version of the Nikon SE....or an equivalent from another mfr..

Keep in mind that one of the first things you will notice about the immediate difference between your Minox roof and the Nikon porro (good choice btw, you will likely not be dissapointed :)) will be the increased depth of focus. In other words, focus on a distant object with both. You will see objects remaining in focus quite a bit closer to you with the Nikon as compared to the Minox. That is NOT the porro 3-D image effect. That is largely the effect that depth of focus has in relationship to magnification...increase magnification, decrease depth of field (or depth of focus) or that area you can generally roam aound in with your eyes with minimum focus fuss. Also, not every set of eyes will generally see the same depth of field in the same range of binocular magnification either, but by and large depth of focus is magnification dependent.

I don't think anybody thought you were a troll . This place gets cranky time to time.

Cranky maybe, but still polite enough. I think optics bring out the obsessive/compulsive qualities in all of us In the end a fine binocular is a fine binocular. We are fortunate to be able to nit pick about something of this nature.

Thanks again for all the info available here.