Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles caliber choice for an ar-15

He wasn't saying "all military members are ignorant to the way guns, ballistics and such work." He's saying that because you're in the military doesn't mean you automatically know more than the average civilian shooter, and he's correct.

I'll give you that, some don't, and some people just make schit up, but some people really do know what they are talking about, and a several of them post here and on other forums.

I don't care if you have the opinion that a larger wound channel is an aid to terminal ballistics. You went away from terminal ballistics when you started talking about tactics. What you said above about dealing with multiple threats by only using one round per threat is the issue. First, it was just plain ignorant if you had any background in this. Second, you are giving the impression that you only need a single shot to stop the threat, don't need to worry about needing to fire followup shots, or transition back to a threat, or even verify your threat has ceased. Nope, just fire a single shot that is a magical death ray and move on to the next target, something you erroneously believe the 6.8 will allow you to do. This is extremely incorrect information you are trying to put out as fact. The fact is it is bad info, and it is something you have nothing to base it on.

Differences in recoil may become larger differences with smaller weapons and shorter barrels. Recovery and transition to additional threats or followup shots may be different. Tell me, have you fired a 6.8 out of a barrel shorter than 16 inches to know? I am aware of recoil differences between my Mk18 10.5 and 14.5 and even 16 inch barrels in the 5.56. Your frame of reference is totally different, and you don't realize it.

TAK,

If you are what you allude to and you really do know how to shoot and understand the technical aspects of it then you would also know that the average SF, SEAL, Ranger, Force dude, etc to say nothing of regular infantry know very little about guns or truly good shooting. You took Honor grad in your sniper class? Awesome. So did I. And set the course record. And I have done the same in every shooting course I have attended, and I have been to a bunch. Doing so doesn't mean that I or anyone else knows what they are talking about. Military and police all think they are gods gift to shooting until they go to a civilian competition and get their butt handed to them by some 400lb fat guy. The reality, as much as it pains me to say this because I am one, is that it is the exception rather then the rule to find someone in the military that has a high level of technical shooting skill. I'm not smack talking, just stating the truth.

What the military does have over everyone else is fighting knowledge. As well we should. We've been at war for over ten years. But to say that the military (even special operations) is the standard bearer of gun knowledge and shooting skill is just simply not true. Even the most special of special within the military do not shoot enough, with enough differing equipment to truly have a broad base mastery knowledge of the technical side to shooting and equipment. A few do of course but that is because they do it on there own. It's not from the military.


Back to the 5.56 vs. 6.8 nonsense- I watched a guy who had received the Silver Star, who was widely regarded as the best shooter within his team, was a SOTIC and SFARTEC graduate take six rounds and almost 30 seconds to hit an 8in plate at 100 yards from an awkward position with only the stress of a timer and his buddies watching. Take a soldier or Marine with FAR less shooting skill and training, put them in a gunfight while they are trying to shoot small partially exposed and fleeting targets, and it is very easy to see why they would think that "I shot him 10 times with 5.56 and he didn't go down". Truth is they do not have the pure shooting skill or knowledge to hit the same size target on the range with just mild stress and so they shot at him ten times. Couple that with unrealistic expectations for the performance of small arms, and you get these stories. Seriously, if we shoot 150lb deer with 300 Ultra mags and 180gr Ballistictips and they still run a hundred yards or more, do you really think a 308 or 6.8 is going to give one shot stops using FMJ or OTM's on 150lb angry hyped up humans?

<Golf Clap>

Nicely said.

I meant to add that from my experience and all of my teammates experiences when you insert Greentip, MK262, SOST, and Optimized 5.56 rounds into vital organs they die.

many are such good shots they close their eyes when the pull the trigger. That SOST bullet looks interesting, can you buy those on the open market?

Yes you can, however there are "better" choices available commercially. SOST is a good bullet and is blind to barriers but is not bonded. Speer 64gr Gold Dot and the identically constructed Federal 62gr Fusion load, Winchester FBI T3 load, Federal TBBC, etc offer outstanding performance even when fired from relatively short barreled 10.5 in guns (MK18's etc). As well as loads using the Barnes TSX. TSX's suffer a bit when shot through glass however.

Are you being obtuse on purpose? Rounds need to be directed at all threats ASAP to say other wise is ridiculous
with multiple advesaries. Can you say tunnel vision?

This is your quote, is it not? One shot per threat, because multiple shots are silly. Everytime I have brought it up, you spout about wound channels and such. You tell me what I am supposed to take from your words, so that others will see why it is so important to make sure good information is posted, and why one should not post outside of their experience.

Trying to hit multiple targets with one round each while remaining exposed is silly.

Even if in this theoretical situation you have no cover or bad cover, it's much quicker overall to give each guy a handful of rounds before transitioning -- and of course, it's also unlikely that most competent shooters placed into a defensive situation would be that exposed in the first place (could certainly happen, though).

Putting only one shot on each guy is a bad idea. First, you have to hit each one with a single shot. Then, you have to assume that that one shot will incapacitate them, to some degree, when there's plenty of evidence to say people get hit center mass and don't even realize it till post-combat, and even then, sometimes with multiple rounds.

There is no perfect broad-stroke response to any situation, but that response isn't a good one for ANY situation, is what we're trying to get at.

WHo in the hell sadi anything about remaining exposed???? I can't see how anyone can guarebty multiple hots at all times and that was my poin. My point was to get rounds in there direction as fast as possible and people keep reading BS into my posts

Jeez

#1 because you aren't defending or clarifying your bad info, and #2 when you aren't posting accurately and articulating things no one understands you. There is more disagreement with your posts on this thread than agreement.

I have a bunch of sierra 65 grain game kings and WW 64 grain flat base power points, and a box of the 62 grain TSX. I have not tried the speer 64 grain gold dot, will look into it!