Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns Some bead questions....

A friend was working to help my wife this weekend and we decided she could use a mid bead (at least for now) to help her get a more consistent mount. She is using a Beretta 3901 with 30" barrel. We put on one of his HiViz front bead attachments in the middle to simulate a mid bead. This seemed to help her get lined up properly. I have been looking around and can't understand why there isn't (or maybe I just haven't found it) an attachable mid bead that clips on or is held on with tape or magnet. The rib is micced at 6mm. I could just get another front HiViz like the one he has loaned us but a smaller attachment would be better if they exist. If you have any thoughts I would appreciate it. Also, I have given some thought before this to have a mid bead added but don't want to send it off just yet.

I also have another question. I have a Beretta 686 Special that is about 20 years old. It is like new and has a wide rib micced at 12mm. I was wondering if the front bead (it doesn't have a mid bead either) screws on like the front bead on my 682 gold e. I get antsy putting too much pressure on something so small that it could snap off fairly easily. Would like to know if it screws on like the current 680 models.

Thanks for any help.

Jim

The target is some place out in front and that is where her focus should be. Not trying to see-or being distracted by-some shiny glow worm half way down the barrel. There is a reason no one makes shotguns that way.

When teaching consistent mount to beginners in trap I have them notice how much of the rib they see. With very little practice they mount consistently without thinking about it. I insist on good cheek contact which helps, and locking the shotgun to the body so eye alignment is maintained as the body moves - shotgun and head move together. I say think like your cheek is superglued to the stock, helps keep their head from coming up when they swing which seems to be the instinctive thing to do.

Of course, the stock has to be reasonably close to fitting and lateral eye alignment has to be correct. If there's a mirror at the end of the muzzle the shooter can see whether or not his eye is over the barrel, left-right, and learn where his cheek should be on the stock. Should feel natural or the stock needs adjustment, it's just to teach proper mount and not to compensate for bad fit.

I put a small mid bead on my O/U mainly for the look. May as well not be there, I never actually see it without making a point of looking. I'm focused where I expect to pick up the target (or real bird) so it's invisible in the out of focus fuzz.

(Don't know about the bead on your Beretta.)

You really don't need a bead anywhere when shooting at something flying. Focus on the target, not the barrel.

Forget about the bead, ignore the bead, or remove it entirely. It's a distraction that draws your eye away from the primary goal- the flying target. Hi-Viz glow worms are the most ridiculous thing to come down the pike since the old Nadar sights, IMO. Invest your time and money in making the gun fit you properly rather than flutzing with the beads.

I want to thank you all for your input. We are trying to get my wife who has never shot shotguns before accustom to proper setup and alignment PRIOR to a clay being called. I understand your comments about where to focus on the bird or (target in this case) but no one is looking at the bead or beads to shot at the target. All we are talking about here is hopefully a temporary aid to get her set up properly before the bird is called. When we added a temporary mid bead her beads were not lined up. She was able to get them to line up (and started hitting more clays) with some slight adjustments to her mount. The bead will help (we hope) with getting a more consistent mount or determine that there is an issue with the mount. So I'm still looking.

Jim

Lets see you want to place a glowing hi viz fluorescent optic half way down the barrel and not expect her to be distracted by it?

The mount can be practiced at home-with an empty shotgun-without even shooting a target. Get it repeatedly close then go to the range. Have seen more the a couple of the top end instructors and none go about it in the way you are considering.

Again someone asks for others thoughts-gets consistent responses-yet from the beginning planned on doing it their way anyway. Why ask in the first place.....

Addition: Probably wasting my time, but I'll throwout a hint:

Guessing you do have a mirror someplace in the house that you can look into..


....or that ingenious common device known as a patterning board which can be use to determine POI and how well we line up our mount.

It's pretty much how the big boys go about getting it done, and it doesn't involve having a high vis halfway down the barrel.

Battue you can't change the OP's mind he is set that a mid bead is the answer. He will never understand that you don't need beads to have the shooters eye lined up right down the barrel. His friend has sold him on a bunch of BS.

Standing there with the gun mounted isn't going to help her hit any birds either.

Being trap, I was talking about how to line up prior to calling for the bird.

We, 4-H instructors, have taught a pile of kids and would not consider a big glowing bead at the end of the barrel on club guns much less a big, glowing mid bead simply because it encourages aiming. A tendency to aim is natural and it's hard enough to stop them from doing it with an ordinary bead. For a beginner, aiming does lead to more hits but that's it, won't get past a relatively few hits. Even worse on real birds as their flight is unpredictable, clay targets in trap fly the same way every time.

Outside of the basics, gun fit, stance, etc. it does take practice and more practice to gain consistency, some shooters more, some less.

If your wife needs a bead in the middle to help her get set up right all she is doing is aiming. I she needs to aim the gun does not fit right. If you don't fix that you will not fix anything.

Take all the beads off and teach her to look at ONLY the target. Spending so much time on beads will only lead to bad habbits down the road IMO. As others have said work on gun mount at home, unloaded of course, and spend time at the range shooting.

Gun mount is simply best learned a bit at a time at home either in front of a mirror or better yet in front of someone who knows what to look for. This is all assuming the gun fits her like it should.

A proper mid-bead is a very small brass or white bead that's D/T into the rib approximately 40% of the way back from the muzzle to the breech. It's to be rather unobtrusive and is used via a very quick glance to verify the mount is right. The front bead is to be stacked directly upon the mid-bead. Once a shooter has done a few hundred shoulder mounts while quickly checking the stack, it's rarely needed any more...

For wing-shooting, posters above are right on. Beads are mostly worthless - it's all inherently instinct and natural hand-eye coordination..

Regarding the last part of your post, I'm not really sure if it's the same thread..

Perhaps from a backyard thrower, but regulation trap will see the birds thrown randomly inside of a 90� arc, albeit at the same trajectory and speed (excepting wobble trap of course). Factor in also the changing viewpoints between the five stations. That makes for an interesting variation in targets over the course of a round.

+100

"It's to be rather unobtrusive and is used via a very quick glance to verify the mount is right."

Yes. Which is pretty the same as noticing how much rib you see. Lateral alignment has rarely a problem once it's pointed out with the mirror trick, if the stock is reasonably close to right.

Well yeah, but if I get a hard left angle on station 1 it's going to be the same shot every time. And no dipping and diving like a bird unless a stiff breeze is blowing through the cottonwoods upwind making turbulence. Makes for a lesson for the kids to not dawdle with their shots, more bouncing about as the birds slow down. Gave us a nice edge at the state tourney in Mitchell on a windy day a few years ago.

Keep in mind the vast majority of factory-issued shotgun stocks are rarely 'close to right'..

Re: How I wish...

Aye - thar's the rub... That "unless" is what'll get ya.. 'Round here, we can get winds from everywhere - and if wind's directly from the left those LH swingers will rise like my temperature when I think of the Emporer.. While a RH swinger (same wind) will dive like Jaques Costeau..

Actually the factory stock on the 20 ga. 1100 youth models work surprisingly well for beginners. Usually the problem is the weight, younger kids getting bent all out of shape trying to hold it up. For those guys the Franchi (thanks again Pheasants Forever) or a little 28 ga. we have makes all the difference. Also the main reason we still use chopped down .410 for the smallest (actually a stock whittled from a couple aspen boards glued together doesn't look half bad, much better than you'd think). Of course we move them to 20s as soon as they can handle them.

I get the kids that shoot pretty well, past the raw beginner stage anyway. (The main instructor loves working with beginners and has a simply magical rapport with them.) If the fit isn't too far off the problems holding them back are most likely slowing/stopping the swing, usually when they revert to aiming (we teach swing through), lifting the head, flinching, and a few other bad habits I can't think of offhand. When they're consistently shooting 20 or so fit problems become more predominant a problem.

Then there's this willowy high school girl with an extra long neck. She mounts with maybe the bottom quarter of the recoil pad on her shoulder. Consistently shoots right around 20, usually over. Somehow. I don't understand it. If we had a shotgun that would fit her I think she would beat them all.

Oh man, you think we don't have wind? We teach to shoot within 2 seconds of picking up the bird mainly so they don't have a chance to slow the swing and aim. Many of the kids get faster, they get the shot off before the bird slows enough to be much affected. On windy days you can really see the scores spread out between the fast and slow shooters. Which we gleefully point out to them.

Fun to watch some of the parents shoot with the kids on those days. They tend to wait way too long, some until the bird starts to drop. Oh the frustration!

Sorry I have been out of this a couple of days. Was shooting registered targets yesterday in the heat and recovering after. Family medical stuff today.

Again - I thank all of you for your input and know everyone's opinion was well intended and taken as such. What Redneck mentioned was the whole intent of the first part of my post. A small unobtrusive mid bead that could be used temporarily to help her get accustom to the proper mount or determine if there was a gun fit problem. I was never really suggesting putting a glowworm in the middle of the barrel. I shoot trap and understand there doesn't need to be any distractions to your vision. I am cross dominant so I understand vision issues fairly well. I have come to the conclusion that a small temporary mid bead just isn't out there so it isn't even an issue.

On a more positive note I got my first 25 Straight patch yesterday on registered targets and 94/100 in singles. Handicap not so much but did get the 25 on my first handicap round.

Thanks again!

Jim