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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Originally Posted by nighthawk
clay targets in trap fly the same way every time.



Perhaps from a backyard thrower, but regulation trap will see the birds thrown randomly inside of a 90� arc, albeit at the same trajectory and speed (excepting wobble trap of course). Factor in also the changing viewpoints between the five stations. That makes for an interesting variation in targets over the course of a round.


Don't forget International or Bunker Trap. If you must shoot trap this is the game worth shooting.


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I still look at both beads before calling for bird(s). Ignore them after as I'm just looking at the target(s). Gives me a reference that many have commented I don't need. With my 391 I discovered seeing a little rib between the beads worked best. Since using this reference before calling my scores have improved significantly.

I'm sure those with more knowledge and experience are correct saying none are needed but it's now part of my ritual. Can't see how it hurts, ran 99 registered trap singles last week and 99 reg. handicap ealier this year.

Recently bought my daughter a 3901 RL. No mid bead from the factory. After a few weeks of shooting I had a mid bead installed for her at the Buckeye Classic. She's improved a lot lately by stacking the 2 beads before calling.

Right or wrong I can't say, just a newer shooter commenting on my experience.

Last edited by ring3; 07/03/12. Reason: Corrected model # 3901 RL
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The problem with that is if you need to check and mess with your mount you don't have a solid (good) repeatable mount. That in any clays or bird shooting is not a good thing. A solid repeatable mount is the foundation of all else.

Running 99 won't get you much at a trap tournament.

Last edited by MontanaCreekHunter; 07/02/12.

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Managed to win class championship in singles and handicap at the WV Hall of Fame Shoot. Class runner-up at the Cardinal Center Ohio "Buckeye Classic". My only 2 tournements so far. Not much cash winning but 3 trophies I'm pretty proud of earning. Shot around 5000 registered targets this year averaging just under 95 in singles and 91 in handicaps. My first full year shooting registered trap, about 2 years at trap shooting overall. Ran a few 100 lately in practice just can't get past 99 in registered.
I don't presume to know as much as the more experienced shooters here. I can only speak to what I've had success doing. If I find that my scores have hit a wall sure I might try eliminating the beads. For now though they will remain and provide me a reference point before I call for a target. I've been we're the OP is and recommend trying different approaches while persueing more "dead" targets. For me that's been half the fun (reloading has been the other half).

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Good shooting Ring! I just started trap this year after not picking up a shotgun in over 10 years. I have a Beretta 682 Gold E and it has a mid bead I check every mount. It's just part of the mount before the bird and it doesn't exist after that.

Does Beretta make a RL in the 391? I got the wife a 3901 RL that she is using. Had to look long and hard to find one - also put the Briley bolt handle and bolt release lever on it and makes it very easy to use.

Come down to Silver Dollar to the Southern Grand next year we will probably be there for a day or two.

Thanks!

Jim

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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter

Don't forget International or Bunker Trap. If you must shoot trap this is the game worth shooting.
OOooooooooo, how I wish I had the time/opportunity to try that... (drool)

laugh


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Originally Posted by nighthawk

Oh man, you think we don't have wind?
Oh, I know you get wind.. laugh Don't know your particular area re: trees/hills etc., that can really give birds a ride that many rollercoasters would love to emulate.
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We teach to shoot within 2 seconds of picking up the bird mainly so they don't have a chance to slow the swing and aim.
Yep.. Good teaching.. Once they get more used to it I bet some will take the bird at 1.2-1.4 seconds - sometimes nearly necessary in higher winds..

curious here - do you instruct a low or high hold?


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Originally Posted by battue
....or that ingenious common device known as a patterning board which can be use to determine POI and how well we line up our mount. wink wink


A nice part of using a patterning board, especially for somebody like the OP's wife (a new shooter) is that they can get instant feedback on WHERE they are missing, not just that they ARE missing on a flying bird.

She will see either a trend (all high, etc), or a lack of consistency, either of which can help her to more easily visualize what she might be doing wrong, how to change it, and the effects of those changes.

Just getting her eye to "line up" on a second bead doesn't do much to help her if the gun still doesn't put the pattern where she thinks she's looking.

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The trap range is behind a farmhouse and tree claim. They're to the south of the range and behind us so usually no problem there. Fields on the other three sides except a sparse row of cottonwoods about 35 yards west paralleling the range. So when the prevailing westerlies kick up to 20 or so the trees turbulate the wind and the birds start really popping up and down about a second and a half out of the trap. Sorta like Whac-A-Mole. The best shooters get down to about a second or so, haven't put a clock on it. We only encourage gently or they go into a jerk, have to work into it. Really helps make for a consistent swing, consistent lead.

Low hold, about 18 inches above the house, following Brister's advice. We're looking for a smooth, consistent swing to develop lead and follow through (No, follow the bird to the ground, or the biggest piece left - our mantra with beginners). It's easier to learn and we don't put competition at the top of the list. Encourage it, but fun and proficiency come after safety. Still we always do well at the state shoot. smile

Funny how even that is an individual thing. Calvin has enough to do teaching beginners so I get to do that when he sends them over to my line. Dead giveaway is when they jerk to catch up when they pick up the bird well past the muzzle. Some do ok pointing at the house and some need two feet or so to pick up the bird. 18 inches works well on average.


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Agree. The pattern board is a very good aid in determining where the gun is actually shooting. We use it often.

Jim

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Originally Posted by WJN
Good shooting Ring! I just started trap this year after not picking up a shotgun in over 10 years. I have a Beretta 682 Gold E and it has a mid bead I check every mount. It's just part of the mount before the bird and it doesn't exist after that.

Does Beretta make a RL in the 391? I got the wife a 3901 RL that she is using. Had to look long and hard to find one - also put the Briley bolt handle and bolt release lever on it and makes it very easy to use.

Come down to Silver Dollar to the Southern Grand next year we will probably be there for a day or two.

Thanks!

Jim


I envy you and your Beretta Gold E. Got to shoot a friends bottom single a few times and have been looking for one since.

I missed a digit in my daughter's Beretta model number. It is a 3901 RL. I edited the previous post. Found hers through Jerry's Sport Center. Also added an adjustable butt pad and found a 1 oz load she can shoot comfortably. Her scores and enjoyment have increased since. Now my 13 year old son is also shooting it and I'm having trouble keeping up the loading for all of us. Of all the variables I'm convinced the light recoiling 1oz loads I put together for them is the most important. They will both shoot 100's of rounds each with enjoyment and accuracy. Once the fear of recoil has been eliminated their focus shifts to mount, sight picture, lead, etc... . Factory target loads are too much for them and the "light" offerings are pricey.


Vacationing currently at Myrtle Beach SC. Found a Big 50 event at Myrtle Grove Gun Club I'll be shooting tomorrow. That's as far south as I will make it anytime soon. Thanks for the invite, I've read many good accounts of the Silver Dollar and hope to someday shoot there.

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I don't know if you looked but I found the cast and drop spacers in our 3901 to be wrong from the factory. I just reset them to C 50 DX on both the front and back one. Saw on another forum that this was a typical factory problem.

I found the 682 Gold E on a day trip to Silver Dollar back in March. It was originally a combo the dealer had sold off the Single barrel. It's 32" O/U so I'm good with that and shoot the bottom barrel most of the time.

Several people are reloading light loads at my club and I have been reloading a 7/8 oz load. Rem STS hulls, E3 15.5 g, Win Wad, Win Primer. Not much recoil at all and they cycle through the 3901 without an issue. Wife has a T&S shell catcher that just snaps on and off. We don't really shoot doubles yet so she just leaves it on.

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Originally Posted by nighthawk

Low hold, about 18 inches above the house, following Brister's advice. We're looking for a smooth, consistent swing to develop lead and follow through (No, follow the bird to the ground, or the biggest piece left - our mantra with beginners). It's easier to learn and we don't put competition at the top of the list. Encourage it, but fun and proficiency come after safety. Still we always do well at the state shoot. smile

Funny how even that is an individual thing. Calvin has enough to do teaching beginners so I get to do that when he sends them over to my line. Dead giveaway is when they jerk to catch up when they pick up the bird well past the muzzle. Some do ok pointing at the house and some need two feet or so to pick up the bird. 18 inches works well on average.
For decades I did the same thing - hold about 18 +/- over the house and call for the bird.. I did 'ok', but not stellar.. Finally decided to try something different - high hold, about 18" under average apex.. Slick Willie!! My scores went up by 3 birds average and it's SO much easier to just swing laterally instead of up and over.. And even with high hold I can still get on 'em inside 1 second - sometimes 1.2 if the wind's acting up and I need a bit larger pattern to cover the up/down drafts.. laugh


Good to hear you're successful at state shoots.. And kudos to taking the time to instruct the young-uns.. Best wishes for continued success.. smile


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I hear you. I started holding at the edge of the house because I shoot with one eye and was told and read I needed to do that to pick up the target quicker. I was pretty inconsistent and on a whim raised my set up point a couple of feet over the house. Seemed to really cut down on swing motion and actually seemed easier to focus on the target. It probably is an issue of personal preference. Don't think I hold as high as you are suggesting Red but raising it seemed to help me.

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Gotta brag on the kids a little, can't help myself. Last year at the state meet in beginner division we took second place. First and second in junior division. In team the two junior teams took first and second and the seniors took third. The seniors did better when they were juniors, funny how that happens when the boy-girl socializing starts. laugh

It's fun. We end up with a couple kids with developmental problems to some degree or another, withdrawn and no accomplishments/self confidence. They learn a skill, that they can set goals and accomplish something if they work at it, socialize with the other kids and they just blossom before your eyes. That right there makes it worth all the time and effort. See it particularly in archery which we do over the winter, has been running about 60 kids the last few years.

A couple of the old(er) guys at the club who were heavily into competitive shooting were telling me about high hold, as in hint, hint. Haven't tried it yet. The 4-H instructor certification instructor showed us a good one, mount per usual and lift your head off the stock a little before calling for the bird. If the stock fits it pops to where it's supposed to be and you pick up the bird a couple tenths sooner. Darned if it doesn't work but feels weird as hell.

I'm back to basics this season, eye dominance shifted right in the middle of a round last season. You know the eye dominance test where you point at an object in the distance? For me my finger doesn't black out the object any more, I still see a ghost image of it. Man, will that mess you up. Took a while to figure out, it doesn't register since you're focused on the target but you miss a lot, and randomly. high, low, all over. Think a little piece of frosted tape on the left lens will fix it, we'll see.


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Originally Posted by nighthawk
Gotta brag on the kids a little, can't help myself. Last year at the state meet in beginner division we took second place. First and second in junior division. In team the two junior teams took first and second and the seniors took third. The seniors did better when they were juniors, funny how that happens when the boy-girl socializing starts. laugh

It's fun. We end up with a couple kids with developmental problems to some degree or another, withdrawn and no accomplishments/self confidence. They learn a skill, that they can set goals and accomplish something if they work at it, socialize with the other kids and they just blossom before your eyes. That right there makes it worth all the time and effort. See it particularly in archery which we do over the winter, has been running about 60 kids the last few years.

A couple of the old(er) guys at the club who were heavily into competitive shooting were telling me about high hold, as in hint, hint. Haven't tried it yet. The 4-H instructor certification instructor showed us a good one, mount per usual and lift your head off the stock a little before calling for the bird. If the stock fits it pops to where it's supposed to be and you pick up the bird a couple tenths sooner. Darned if it doesn't work but feels weird as hell.

I'm back to basics this season, eye dominance shifted right in the middle of a round last season. You know the eye dominance test where you point at an object in the distance? For me my finger doesn't black out the object any more, I still see a ghost image of it. Man, will that mess you up. Took a while to figure out, it doesn't register since you're focused on the target but you miss a lot, and randomly. high, low, all over. Think a little piece of frosted tape on the left lens will fix it, we'll see.


That is great Nighthawk! I am holding five A.I.M. N.Y. State raffle tickets. I think youth programs are very worthwhile and rewarding. Blazer F3 Super Trap Combo and K gun first and second prize. I'm pretty sure I will win one of them - HA!

I think it is either Harlan Campbell or Leo Harrison that teaches a very high hold point. Might find a brief video on youtube.

Keep up the good work!

Jim

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Thanks, and good luck in the raffle!


The key elements in human thinking are not numbers but labels of fuzzy sets. -- L. Zadeh

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Originally Posted by ring3
Managed to win class championship in singles and handicap at the WV Hall of Fame Shoot. Class runner-up at the Cardinal Center Ohio "Buckeye Classic". My only 2 tournements so far. Not much cash winning but 3 trophies I'm pretty proud of earning. Shot around 5000 registered targets this year averaging just under 95 in singles and 91 in handicaps. My first full year shooting registered trap, about 2 years at trap shooting overall. Ran a few 100 lately in practice just can't get past 99 in registered.
I don't presume to know as much as the more experienced shooters here. I can only speak to what I've had success doing. If I find that my scores have hit a wall sure I might try eliminating the beads. For now though they will remain and provide me a reference point before I call for a target. I've been we're the OP is and recommend trying different approaches while persueing more "dead" targets. For me that's been half the fun (reloading has been the other half).


What Class was that B? Around here it would be hard to win B class missing more then one or two. For the shoots I have been to anyways.


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[/quote]

What Class was that B? Around here it would be hard to win B class missing more then one or two. For the shoots I have been to anyways.[/quote]

Yup, B class singles. 18-21 yards handicap. B class doubles. My ATA averages continue to rise abeit much slower than earlier this year. Im now A class singles but cant seem to earn another punch. WV State Shoot starts Thursday. I intend on gaining at least 1 yard.

A 98 earned me an 8 way tie at the Buckeye, finished 2nd in the following shoot off. At the WV Hall of Fame Shoot 194 got me the championship. Missed 4 birds on the first trap, 1 on the second and 1 on the 6th. Nerves got to me on the first, at least thats my excuse. grin

Considering this is my first year shooting ATA targets regularly I am pleased so far. The shoots are enjoyable and the participants seem to always be quite friendly and helpful. Wish I would have started target shotgunning earlier but then again, earlier I really didnt have the time or money.

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I don't mind shooting doubles the rest just bores me. Wish I had a Bunker Trap closer to me, I would shoot that everyday. FITASC, Sporting Clays, Flyers, and Bunk get me horned up.


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