Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters How can this be? - a 204 question

I dunno man; this is your party.

If it were MY party I would have to exclude you as you are biased.

It would be best carried out by shooters who didn't shoot either round, as they would have little preconceived expectations.

I shoulda hung on to that .25-06.

"223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers."


Now why in the world would you think that I may be biased?

drover

Call it a hunch.

An interesting thread. I have seen posts by Mule Deer several times regarding this issue. I respect his opinion and can see in what he writes that he is not one to rush to judgement or take for granted time tested bits of lore. That being said my conclusions are closer to Drovers. My experience has been over a period of about 25+ years. I have used a bunch of guns during that time but no 204. My experience is about seeing bullet impact. With a 223 it is rare for me not to see impact.

One thing that I had never considered was how the gun is held. Does it matter? I do not Know.

So what I have learned from this thread is that most other peoples experience will be different than mine. If it is the same that is a bonus.

ipopum,

Your comments make a lot of sense.

I suspect that both the recoil and the shooter's build and hold make a difference. I'm fairly muscular (5-8 and 185-190 when my belly is pretty flat) and tend to hold rifles firmly. When holding real benchrest rifles I shoot best with some contact at the shoulder, though not as much as with varmknt rifles or, especially, big game rifles. In the field I also tend to shoot prairie dog rifles with one hand on the forend, even when shooting off a rest.

Would be interested to hear from others about this.

John,

For almost all my hunting(big game and varmints) and shooting from the bench, I firmly pull the rifle into my shoulder on a consistent basis. It gives me a steady scope picture, and seems to promote consistency.

And it seems to be especially helpful shooting Ruger #1's.

Steve

Mule Deer My favorite shooting position is from Levi sand bags on a pick-up hood. I too like firm butt-stock to shoulder contact. I tend to lean into the pick-up with my body. I long ago learned to shoot with both eyes open.
Reading the postings has caused me to wonder if loss of impact could be caused by side motion of the barrel at firing. I have noticed that some who use bi-pods do not see bullet impact as much as I do.
It will be interesting to see what shooting positions various posters use.

Carl

Shoot with both eyes open and don't flinch.
For the guy that don't flinch,give him a empty chamber part of the time and watch. Kenny

My shooting position appears to be very similar to yours - I also usually shoot off the hood of my vehicle. I use a couple of homemade sandbags and rest the rifle on top of them, I do not use a rear bag, I lean my body into the side of the vehicle for support. The next part is a little difficult to explain with just words but here goes - I am a right handed shooter so the rifle butt is on my right shoulder, the forend is resting on the bags, I extend my left arm forward with my elbow resting on the hood for additional support and place my left hand against my right shoulder and lean my shoulder into it. This makes a support almost as solid as a front and rear rifle rest. The forend of the rifle is not held or touched at all, I do use a fairly snug grip on the pistol grip.

Other thoughts - I do have fairly light triggers on my varmint rifles they are set at a pound and one-quarter. The sandbags are not a tight packed bag and that may help absorb a bit of the rifle movement.


If shooting from the vehicle, depending on the position of the vehicle in relation to the target, I rest my hand either on top of the mirror, or the window glass, and loosely hold the forearm but do not grip it but I do keep a fairly snug grip on the pistolgrip, the same as when I shoot off sandbags. I shoot this way so that it is as similar as possible to way the rifle is resting on the sandbags when shooting off the hood.

Hopefully this describes enough of a picture that it is possible to envision my set-up.
drover

I have also found the way I hold the rifle makes a difference in spotting shots, I tend to take most shots off a bipod or bags when shooting PD's. Prone from the bipod, I load the bipod and hold the rifle tight to my shoulder, this with BG rifles as well. Shooting off bags, I tend to lean into the gun a bit with my thumb often not wrapped around the grip , more along the right side of the stock.My grip varies depending on the rifle. I have one gun I shoot that has more of a BR style stock (Savage Model 12VLP .22-250) which makes it easier to hold that way, the slimmer sporter stocks, I wrap my thumb more. The exception being a pistol grip stock on an AR
I do maintain solid contact with my shoulder in all rifles, whether at the bench or in the field.

As far as spotting shots on PD's goes, I have not shot a .204 Ruger. I have shot the .222 Rem the most (Sporter weight bolt gun, 40 NBT) followed by the above .22-250 (55 SBK) and then the .223 Rem (Bushmaster Varminter, 60gr HPBT).

I have found the .223 AR and .222 I can spot shots from around 100 and out (maybe a little less with the .222), with the .22-250 200 and out. I find I can spot better off the bipod than off bags.

Shooting BG rifles in the field I use a bipod or shooting sticks, I can spot from 200 and out or so on lower power (6 or 7x) 9x requires 250-300. My two big game rifles are Rem 700's in 7mm RM and .30-06. I have also taken one deer with a Whitworth .300 Win which I spotted the shot from around 300.

Oh, and I am 6'01" 250lb.

Edited to add: The Bushmaster Varminter I used, a friend was trying to sell it to me, I only took it on one hunt to try it. I opted to buy a new BG rifle instead. I have tried two of these and I would love to have one someday. All my other experience with the 5.56mm/.223 has been with Iron sights in M249,M16A1,M16A2, or M4 carbine.

Thanks to all who've responded about their results and shooting positions.

One thing I must comment on is the notion that shooting with both eyes open helps in spotting shots. There's a big difference between spotting shots with your naked "off" eye and at 10-15x through a scope, especially when shooting small varmints at 300 yards.

I know both eyes open does nothing in spotting impact. I only mentioned it as it is a part of my basic shooting style.

I volunteer to be part of the shooting test!

Does the slightly extra weight of the barrel in a 204 make any difference in muzzle rise????