Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Scope Change Advice

I need some advice.

I have a Pre-Rem Marlin 45-70 that has various custom touches to it. Down the line of what I need help with today it has an XS Scout Rail on the front and Williams ghost ring firesight on the rear. Until recently this rig had a complete piece of crap Bushnell scope on it. Even by Bushnell standards. Before anyone bashes me I don't think Bushnell sucks but this is their low line. The scope is mounted in High QR rings in order to clear the rear iron sight.

Long story short I picked up a Leupold 2-7x built before 1974 with the friction adjustment.

The problem is that with the high rings there isn't enough upward adjustment in the scope to put it on the target. If I go to low QR rings (which I have) the scope can get far enough back because of the iron sights.

So should I take off the rear sight and just throw the the iron sight thing out of the equation or is there another solution?

In case it matters with the scope run up as high as it will go with the high QR rings it is 2-3" low of the target at 50 yards.

Thanks

Tom

Burris Signature Zee rings with offset inserts to build in elevation.

Problem is I have the a situation where the scope doesn't have enough so that I can move the poi any higher.

So the issue is, is there an alternative to my irons?

Has anyone else faced this issue?

Tom

I hope I'm not missing something, but I'll proceed anyway.

The rings I mention take offset inserts, so you can raise the back end of the scope while also lowering the front. This has the same effect as a canted rail as used on long range rifles. It builds in elevation.

For example, .01" up offset in the rear ring and .01" down in the front corresponds to about 17 MOA of built in "up" when the rings are 4" apart.

You're not. I'm going to look into those right away. Do they sell those in QR?

Have you used them personally? How is the quality?

Thanks

Tom

They do not make a QR ring that is offset-able.

If I don't end up going with a QR ring I'd lose my irons anyway.

The rings that shot are 0.525". The shorter rings that I have are 0.375". So a delta of 0.15".

Mathman, How many MOA will that translate into?

Much appreciated.

Tom

Do they have to be finger twist QR, or will a screwdriver do?

Your delta spread over 4" would be approx. 130 MOA. But you can't do what you're thinking. Imagine the bind the scope tube would be in.

The Burris rings don't bind the scope tube at all. The inserts are "spherical" on the outside, and the inside of the rings mirror that. So the hole through each ring is at an angle and the scope is tilted w/o binding.

Get a leupold 2.5x20 - with 5 inches of eye relief you may be able to mount it low and forward of your peep. Good luck sounds like a nice rig

I would send the scope to Leupold and ask them to check it out qnd perform any upgrades that they can do under warranty. I'd also let them know what the particular problem is. I sent in an older M8 6x42 with friction adjustments and asked them to do upgrades, and I got it back with a note indicating they had updated the erector system for more elevation adjustment. There must have been a common problem with the earlier scopes. It's worth a try, and the turnaround is pretty quick.

Buying another scope is out of the question. I'm looking for cheap solutions or I'll just pull the irons off it and call it a day.

257, If this scope had more eye relief I'd consider that.

Mathman, I'm not talking about using one small one and one large one. Not talking about binding the scope at all. I'm talking a 0.15" lower to the rifle by swtiching to lower rings. Do you know what that MOA change would be?

As a reminder I was 2-3" low at 50 yards with the scope at the top of it's elevation with 0.525" rings. Now going to 0.375".

Thanks

Tom

I don't think that will do much in the face of the correction you need. If you consider the angle between a bore line and sight line meeting at 50 yards, having to make up only .15" less to converge is about a .3 MOA smaller correction.

If thats the case I think I may want to start by sending it in to Leupold to make sure all is correct with it.

I've got other rifles to hunt with. I'm toying with the idea of taking my 7.5x55 out this year.

Tom

Anyone else have any ideas?

Tom

Anyone else out there got something for me?

Tom

Why do you even have the ghost ring on it? if you're using the scope chances are, you don't/won't have the irons sighted in anyway, AND, if you have those stupid see through mounts, is part of the problem. Take the ghost ring off, and bring the scope back where it belongs, then you don't have to worry about eye relief. From my experience, set ups like you have were put on there by someone not too knowledgeable, because it sounded cool. screw cool, bring the scope back where it belongs, and use the rifle. The chances of your needing the irons too remote to be concerned with. I used a Marlin 95, when they first came out, probably the first person to take one to Africa in 1972, and never had to be concerned with a scope breaking. Alternative is, learn to use the iron sights and throw the scope away..

No see through rings here. I also agree worst idea ever.

I'm using QR rings. I also agree having a back up sighting system, irons is not necessary but I liked having the option with the Bushnell scope. Problem is the Leupold is so much better.

I'm going to call Leupold on Thursday and ask them how much to just add more MOA to the scope.

Tom

Did you try swapping the rings front to back? If that doesn't help the problem may not be the scope or rings, but the bases. I'm guessing they may need to be shimmed. If so, you've probably got other issues with the bases not being parallel to each other, which will cause a variety of problems.

Remove the rings and chech the base alignment using a steel ruler. See if it makes sense to shim the rear base higher. Aluminum beer cans make a great shim material (about .007"). You can also place short pieces of shim under the front or back of each base to tilt the base so that it is parallel to the other base. When you finally reassemble the bases, check the horizontal alignment as well as the vertical. Then torque down all the base screws to 20 in-lbs.

Do you have other rifles with scopes? Just curious. I ought my lever , a 44mag, specifically for close stuff and open sights. Any chance you could just use the ghost rings? I find them decent at yards I might want to use a 45/70. Granted, that would be under 75 yds for me.

257- I have an M8 with those friction adjustments. I dread touching those. Makes me REALLY appreciate clicks and adjustments in general on every other scope I ever had. How is yours now vs how it was before? Don't mean to hijack this thread so it might be worth starting a new one.