Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire I heard Rick Jamison won his lawsuit.............

against Winchester? Some months ago there was buzz on the "shortmag forum" that he was suing Winchester for the shortmag concept. Wondering if anyone out there knows any of the particulars or where something was posted? "Use enough gun - but more common sense"

If it's true I should get some money from Leupold. I invented the Eclipse scope on a goat hunt 20 years ago. Albeit an inverted eclipse......

The suit was settled, on terms that have been sealed and can not be revealed.

Browning engaged me as a consultant in the case several months ago, and I can't get any details of the settlement. One of Browning's attorneys told me only "Browning is happy" with the terms of the settlement.

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How in the world can he think he is the orignator of the short fat concept? I made a .378 Weatherby shortened to 2 1/4" and necked to 7MM at least twenty-two years ago. I used 96 grains of H870 to propell 130 to 3,330 feet per second. There was just no way I could match the velocity of my 7-.300 Weatherby's velocity. The bold would get hard to lift if I added even two more grains. I used 85 grains of IMR7828 to shoot a 150er at 3,525 feet per second. I don't believe the 26" barrel on the short fat was the reason it was that much slower than the 28" barrel on the long slim one.

And for accuracy either one would occationally shoot sub 1/2" groups. I worked up a compromise between the most accurate and highest velocity for both.

Rick apparently got a patent on the concept. IMHO, that was not a patentable idea. But the patent office apparently issued him one anyway.

Any number of people came-up with the same ideas years earlier � but the patent office apparently issued him a patent anyway.

My conclusion is that "Browning is happy" with the settlement because it could've been worse.

The patent is in Rick's favor. The many earlier cartridges with the same characteristics are contrary to Rick's favor. So it's easy for me to see how it could've been worse but wasn't.

I'm just relieved at no longer being caught between my friend Rick and my friends at Browning and Winchester.

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Ken,

I just noticed the name on your post. Glad to see, or rather, read you again. There is a thread on "Christ at the campfire" asking about favorite theologian. I posted something to the effect they like people who write what they already believe (jsut like me). If I had thought correctly, I would have posted your name. I still refer to the copies of your stuff from a few months ago. Thanks.

for everything short and fat then he could very well be taking credit for me.......except I'm older than him. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

So this begs the question if he went after Winchester then why not Remington for their SAUM and Lou Palmisano and Ferris Pindell for their PPCs? Looks to me like he saw that someone came up with a great idea and wanted to profit from someone elses work. Kind of a chicken crap thing to do if you ask me.

Local Gunsmith Ralph Payne has been doing them on the 348 case with rim turned down and Wby radius shoulder since the 1960's. Another local, Dave Gentry, started his line on the 416 Rigby case in the 1980's... pretty fascinating stuff that Jamison has the hubris to patent a case variation let alone that the patent office would accept such.

Apparently the patent office doesn't know any more about guns and ammunition than the average news media person <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I think perhaps Rick is setting a bad precedence. There's always one willing to sell out a group, for personal gain.

Kinda sad, in my book.

Say..... I think I'll patent a case for .22 Cal that looks like a miniaturized 30/06. Then sue Remington for an infringment on it with their obviously plaugurized .222 !!!

Mickey,

No offence intended, but do you think you would consider a New Years resolution to not change the subject line of any threads in 2006? It makes it hard to follow a thread when it keeps changing subject lines.

350Mag,
In 2006 ,why don't you stop whining
and just change the subject line back.
I don't care if you take offence!
Bart

Now that's funny <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Reminds me of Barak's Mom when she sends an e-mail message. I sit and puzzle over her first sentence every time. I know she does it, and yet never remember to look up to the subject line for the beginning of the thought. DUH! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

B'sW

Might not be the "short and fat" idea generally that is patentable, and probably not necking down or shortening any cartridge in general, but specifically necking down the .404 Jeffrey and shortening it to a certain length to fit in short action magazines might be specific enough to be patentable.

Rick did a lot of experimenting with necking down the .404 to various calibers in the mid-90's, these experiments were reported extensively in Shooting Times. Coincidentally, just a few short years later Winchester came out with a series of cartridges based on the .404 Jeffrey which were remarkably similar to what Rick had done.

IIRC there were a few posts on Shooters or maybe even this board condemning Winchester for "stealing" Rick's ideas without even bothering to give credit to his research, much less giving him any royalties or compensation.

That's okay, times change, memories grow short and now he's just a money grubbing whore.

Jim in Idaho,



I agree with you here.

Well, you're probably intelligent enough to understand that I was using irony there.

I vehemently disagree with you. You won't change my opinion and I won't change yours, so there it stands.

"now he's just a money grubbing whore."

I have to agree with that as well. For him to even think he was the first person to come up with the idea is so vain.