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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
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I've been sprayed in the eyes/face with OC in training a few times. After being sprayed, we were required to draw our PR-24 baton, administer a few jabs/strikes to a training bag, then handcuff a semi-compliant fellow student.
Bottom line, OC will make your eyes/nose burn and runny, make you wish to close your eyes, make it hard to breathe, irritate your mouth, throat, lungs, sinus.
But, if you have a strong combat mindset, and determination, it will not neutralize you. And you knew it was coming, and you held your breath. If you'd never seen or heard of the stuff before and you were bellowing and snorting and running and somebody sprayed your face with about ten of those little squirts (like you recieved in training) all at once (equivalent to the UDAP) you'd have gone down like you took a 240 burst in the chest. Keep guessing. Quite obviously he is doing so. I would never carry spray and not a firearm but I do carry spray. I've been OC'd no less than four times and Shane is correct, you can fight through it. Although I have never had to spray a bear, I have sprayed a whole pile of canines. And it hurts them, bad. To the point that they will behave differently for extended periods of time. It definitely does bad schit to critter's olfactory system. Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,787
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 10,787 |
I've been sprayed in the eyes/face with OC in training a few times. After being sprayed, we were required to draw our PR-24 baton, administer a few jabs/strikes to a training bag, then handcuff a semi-compliant fellow student.
Bottom line, OC will make your eyes/nose burn and runny, make you wish to close your eyes, make it hard to breathe, irritate your mouth, throat, lungs, sinus.
But, if you have a strong combat mindset, and determination, it will not neutralize you. And you knew it was coming, and you held your breath. If you'd never seen or heard of the stuff before and you were bellowing and snorting and running and somebody sprayed your face with about ten of those little squirts (like you recieved in training) all at once (equivalent to the UDAP) you'd have gone down like you took a 240 burst in the chest. TAK, I respectfully disagree. I'm one of the lucky ones that is impacted very little by OC. For example, I had one of my patrol guys surpise both the suspect and myself by basically emptying his "fogger" into a basement area (he might have been a little amped up). I was in said area and there was a baby in the back. I evacuated the baby and took the suspect into custody (my officer hated OC and got the hell out). OC doesn't impact everyone the same. I've seen it be completely ineffective as many times as I've seen it work. I can also state that we've walked our K9s through clouds of OC and CS (enough that the handlers wore masks). It only served to pizz them off more, not turn them. George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,546
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 24,546 |
If you read this whole thread, there isn't a very big % of actual encounters. Back and forth between spray and guns is the same as the age old argument of 9mm vs 45 ACP.
I have encountered Grizzlies near our cabin near Yellowstone, and I have seen false charges, no real attacks. Getting to bear spray or a firearm when a critter that big has you in his sights is scary and unnerving. I don't know if I could get to either without messing my pants.
Either way I hunt that area up there during bow season, I do my own thing and after a real encounter, I will report on whether or not my preferred carry is better than the other...
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 115,424 |
Bears charge shrapnel until they get a peek at who they're charging.
Travis
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual. Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit. My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 13,860 |
Well, OC works like a charm on Haitians. I fact, I never saw it NOT work on Haitians, and I oughta know cause I used it a BUNCH. Some of the little cretin thieves in Portau Prince did figure out how to use citrus (limes) to neutralize the spray in their eyes. They'd run off after you hosed 'em, get their eyes cleared up and be back at it in no time. They had long ago figure out TO HOLD THEIR BREATH though.
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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,066
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,066 |
Yeah, OC works well....except when it doesn't.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950 |
Speaking of bears and hikes, saw these two yesterday morning on our way to a hike
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,950 |
I have no first hand knowledge of stopping a bear charge. Never had to thankfully. However, because I am occasionally in bear country, I try to be as prudent as possible. To that end, I try to gain information from more informed sources. Two different reviews of bear attacks had similar findings. Bear spray was successful in stopping bear attacks about 90 % of the time, firearms about 60% of the time. If I remember correctly it took an average of 4 shots to stop a bear. The typical bear attack occurred something like 3 or 4 seconds after the bear was first seen. Therefore, I always carry bear spray in bear country. And, a firearm, if possible. Not knowing a lot about handguns and bears, I tried to follow Phil Shoemakers advice, and carry the most powerful handgun that has manageable recoil and in my case that is a S&W Mountain Gun in 44 Magnum with cast bullets. I am not putting the above information out as my own or as being original, but as at least having some reasoning behind it.
Fred
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
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I have no first hand knowledge of stopping a bear charge. I have and a 130 grain Nolser stopped it all.I would want nothing less and I also have been gassed several times and was taught how to work through it to take care of the matter at hand without a mask. Life or death situation and someone prefers a spray over a bullet provided he or she is capable of making a good shot under the stress of the event? Why not hair spray and a match or a flame thrower? Because if there that close, you already lost! Jayco
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,766
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,766 |
'a good shot under the stress of the event' means a CNS shot on a wildly moving target the size of a grapefruit. there's been a few hunters killed lately BECAUSE they shot the bear.
and yes, i've killed bear at spitting distance.
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Really...It takes a CNS shot to stop all Bears...Not!!!!!
You read to much!
Jayco
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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do ya really think bleeding out a charging bear is gonna do it? laffin...
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
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I'm laughing too......You don't have to hit CNS to stop a fricken Bear. How did this happen without a CNS shot? "This grizzly was killed in Spatsizi Plateau Wilderness Park in the Eagle Nest Mountain Range of Northern British Columbia. He squared over 8 feet and the skull measured 23 13/16'', which is very good size for an interior mountain grizzly bear. When I shot the bear, he had started a charge from about 70 yards away, and by the time I had a sight on him, he was 40 yards. The 540 Hammerhead hit him right between the front legs, and he did a complete front-wards flip after the bullet hit him. That bullet completely penetrated him lengthwise and exited. I made a follow up shot (which was unnecessary, just instinct) after he rolled which angled through the chest, took out a section of spine, and exited the top of his skull (if you look closely at the photo you can see the exit hole in his head). Very impressive bullet performance."Jayco
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Posts: 6,766
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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your google fu is great today. now read the title of the thread slowly so you understand.
then ask yourself what the .540 is that the guy in the picture is holding.
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295 |
Use enough handgun like the 45-70 BFR and you will penetrate any Grizz stem to stern taking out all the crap in between.
I didn't Google anything...Randy Garrett is a good friend of mine and sent this little bugger to me via e-mail.
Use enough gun and aim strait.Use the spray for seasoning!
Jayco
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,766
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
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and in what world is the 4#+ .45-70 BFR a 'hiking revolver'? again, read THIS
Guns don't kill people, drivers with cell phones kill people.
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,193
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,193 |
It is fascinating that a newbie's first post on a subject that has been beat to death over and over again for years has resulted in 14 pages so far and no end in sight.
I wonder if the OP will ever appear to submit his third post (probably on the .270 vs. the .30/06 for 133 lb. Axis deer over a pile of rutabagahs at 4:30 PM from 227 yards on a Thursday afternoon during the second phase of the moon in October).
Last edited by wildhobbybobby; 09/16/12.
Life is like a purple antelope on a field of tuna fish...
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Posts: 1,813
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,813 |
What is the old grisly alaskan quote. "Make sure you have your bear spray ready so you can spray him down after you shoot him 'cause they stink to high heaven."
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 7,295
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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and in what world is the 4#+ .45-70 BFR a 'hiking revolver'? Your showing your stripes...A 4# revolver in a good bandoleer holster is ten fold better than a 3# holster/caliber on the side that won't do the deed. Show me your handgun and how far it will penetrate a Grizzly.I will bet you,my handgun will out penetrate any rifle you own? Jayco
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
Watch it Toad! Next he'll challenge you to push ups!!
After that it's naked wrestling!!!
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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