Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Did The Shot That Killed JFK Come From The Grassy Knoll?

I guess I would have no problem with that.

Do you have an authoritative basis for that claim?

What we have here is somebody aching to debate fine points from a position of ignorance of the subject material.

In this case the physical terrain.

GTC

You need to keep in mind the precise position of the limo when the shot was fired. That's crucial to the analysis. Just going there and eyeballing it for yourself is nonscientific. There was the potential for an easy shot from that position just prior to the limo being obscured by the tree, but the shot in question occurred precisely when the view to the limo from the window was obscured by the tree.

Hours and hours and hours of rehashed scenarios have been played out ad nauseum with the tree in place, TRH.

This horse has been resurrected and beat over and over and over again.

Don't mind that though, I'd hate for facts to get in the way of your really cool story...

Blame Canada, it worked for South Park...

My difficulty in accepting the grassy knoll theory is that with the thousands of people in the area, to my knowledge not one eyewitness saw the alleged grassy knoll shooter. Remember, Dallas PD handed the investigation because at the time of Kennedy's murder there was no federal law proscribing the murder of a president. Moreover, Oswald murdered a Dallas cop. Therefore, at the time the murder occurred I don't believe Dallas PD would have covered up anything over which it had authority.

When considered in its totality, it's extremely doubtful that Oswald could have murdered Kennedy without the aid of principals to that crime.

Baby Huey,

Your inveterate inability to discern facts and/or make them up to suit you renders your contributions insignificant.

My curiosity regards the degree to which you're concerned about the matter even being discussed on an open forum. If you're convinced that folks are mere kooks who are open to the possibility of a conspiracy in the case of the JFK assassination, just dismiss them as such and move on. Why seek the suppression of the discussion?

I could have made that shot with a open sight Win 94 in 30-30

The view Oswald had for the second shot, the first one to hit Kennedy. The third shot happened after the car cleared the tree...

Oswald had a clear, easy to make shot...


CORRECTION: This was the first missed shot. The next one came 4.8 seconds later, after the limo cleared the tree...

Point remains, Oswald had a clear, easy to make shot with no obstructions...

You need to keep in mind the precise position of the limo when the shot was fired. That's crucial to the analysis. Just going there and eyeballing it for yourself is nonscientific. There was the potential for an easy shot from that position just prior to the limo being obscured by the tree, but the shot in question occurred precisely when the view to the limo from the window was obscured by the tree. [/quote]

Listen, ACE, the road where the shots hit the president are marked with a white "X" on the pavement and very easy to discern how the whole event went down. One shooter, and easy shots. end of story

Who did I call a kook?

I thought I was participating in the discussion...

Who's suppressing who here?

So it shouldn't be discussed any further, right? Jorge has spoken?

Ridicule is a tool of suppression.

Pointing out the ridiculous isn't part of a discussion? You do it all the time...

Refutation isn't the same as ridicule. Ridicule has as its purpose the suppression of dissent.

Only when you post because what you do post is ridiculous.

Pointing out that your premise and claims are ridiculous is not the same as suppressing your argument. God knows, nobody can suppress your stories, TRH. No matter how many facts there are to counter them.

You're a dedicated conspiracy theorist. It's about like trying to convince a devout religious fanatic that their faith is askew.

John F. Kennedy was far from perfect, in his personal life, or in some of the decisions he made as president. However, unlike most presidents, he had some good ideas, and he had plans to enact them. For example, he had plans to abolish the Federal Reserve system, which prints worthless money backed by nothing, and charges interest on it, making us a debtor nation to a group of international bankers. He wanted to use United States Notes, and he signed a presidential document, called Executive Order 11110, on June 4, 1963.

This gave JFK, as U.S. President, legal clearance to create true money, that would belong to the people, and eliminate the Federal Reserve Bank, and their false money. Kennedy had already begun issuing U.S. government money that was free of debt to replace the Federal Reserve dollars we have been using. A number of "Kennedy bills" were indeed issued - with the heading "United States Note", instead of "Federal Reserve Note" - but were quickly withdrawn after Kennedy's death. Records show that Kennedy issued $4,292,893,825 of true money. It was clear that Kennedy was out to eliminate the criminal Federal Reserve System. It is interesting to note that, only one day after Kennedy's assassination, all the United States notes which Kennedy had issued were called out of circulation. All of the money President Kennedy had created was destroyed, and not a word was said to the American people.
A "KENNEDY BILL" ISSUED IN 1963, WITH "UNITED STATES NOTE" REPLACING "FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE"
In 1962, the Joint Chiefs of Staff presented Kennedy with Operation Northwoods. Operation Northwoods would have had our own government inflicting terrorist attacks upon US citizens, and blaming it on our enemies, to justify wars and political assassinations. Kennedy rejected it. He planned to abolish the CIA's right to conduct covert operations, and eventually dismantle it. Kennedy said he would "splinter the CIA into a Thousand Pieces". Kennedy's intent to abolish the Federal Reserve Bank, his rejection of Operation Northwoods, and his plan to eliminate CIA covert operations planted the seeds for the CIA's assassination of him.

Lee Harvey Oswald was linked to virtually every group that had a reason to want Kennedy dead. In the years before Kennedy's death as a Marine, Oswald worked as a radar operator at U-2 spy plane bases. After leaving the Marines he defected to the Soviet Union. While in Russia he married the niece of a KGB colonel, and he lived in relative luxury, likely in exchange for false or already outdated information on the U-2 that he passed to the Russians. Oswald apparently pretended to be a traitor to America, while actually working for the CIA. On returning to the U.S. Oswald propagandized for Castro's Cuba out of a New Orleans building he shared with a CIA/FBI agent trying to overthrow Castro named Guy Banister. Delphine Roberts worked for Banister. She said that, "Mr. Banister had been a special agent for the FBI and CIA." She saw her CIA agent boss meet with Lee Harvey Oswald in September 1963. This story was supported by her daughter, who also met Oswald during this period. Oswald also distributed Pro-Castro leaflets in New Orleans in 1963, with the address of his CIA contact Banister stamped on them.
There was a three-page letter from CIA Director John McCone to Secret Service Chief James Rowley in which McCone acknowledges Oswald worked for the CIA, and was in Russia for that purpose, not as a defector. It discussed how this information should be withheld from the Warren Commission. Allen Dulles' advice to other members of the Warren Commission was that CIA operatives consider it their patriotic duty to lie under oath if necessary to protect "Company" secrets. A Dallas deputy sheriff, Allen Sweatt, was quoted as saying that Oswald was being paid $200 a month by the government at the time of the assassination, and had been assigned an informant number. In October 1963 Oswald moved to Dallas where he got a job in the Texas Book Depository for $1.25 an hour boxing and shipping books.

It's beyond strange how someone who was so clearly connected to the CIA would just happen to get a job working at one of the best sniping points in Dallas, by which the President's open car motorcade would just happen to pass a few weeks after he started working there. Oswald was set up to be the fall guy. On November 22, 1963 at the book depository, around 12:15, secretary Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald in the second floor snack room, where she said he went for a Coke. He was sitting in one of the booths alone, as usual, and appeared to be having lunch. She testified: "I did not speak to him, but I recognized him clearly. I remember it was 12:15 or later. It could have been 12:25, five minutes before the assassination, I don't exactly remember." At the same time, Bonnie Ray Williams was on the sixth floor until 12:20, and he saw nobody. Down on the street, Arnold Rowland saw two men in the sixth floor windows, presumably after Bonnie Ray Williams finished his lunch and left.
Kennedy's motorcade was running late. He was due at the Trade Mart at 12:25. If Oswald was one of the assassins, he was pretty nonchalant about getting himself into position. Later he told Dallas police he was standing in the second floor snackroom. A maximum 90 seconds after Kennedy was shot, patrolman Marrion Baker ran into Oswald in that second story lunchroom. He asked Oswald's boss, "Do you know this man? Is he an employee?" He told Baker that he was. As Baker moved on, he told Oswald, "The President's been shot!" Oswald reacted as if he had heard it for the first time.

What the Official Party Line would have us believe is that after firing 3 bolt action shots in 6 seconds, Oswald then left three cartridges neatly side by side in the firing nest, wiped the rifle clear of fingerprints, stashed the rifle on the other side of the loft, sprinted down five flights of stairs, past Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles, who would have, but never saw him, and then showed up cool and calm on the second floor in front of Patrolman Baker within 90 seconds of the shooting the president. Was he out of breath? According to Baker, absolutely not. Was Oswald a "patsy", as he claimed? Most certainly. Whatever can be said of Oswald, one thing is certain: he either knowingly or unknowingly was a pawn for those responsible for assassinating Kennedy.
CLICK HERE TO HEAR JFK CRITCIZE THE SECRET GOVERNMENT
Jack Ruby, Oswald's assassin, had been stalking Oswald from the time immediately following the assassination, to the moment he shot him. Phillip Willis took a series of 12 photos of Dealey Plaza, where Kennedy was shot, in the minutes before and after the assassination. Mr. Willis' photos and testimony before the Warren Commission appear in the Warren Commission's report. He was not questioned about the eighth photo, a shot of the Book Depository entrance shortly after the assassination. As Willis later pointed out, one of the men in the photo "looks so much like Jack Ruby, Oswald's soon to be assassin, it's pitiful". F.B.I. agents questioning Willis agreed with him that the man bore a powerful resemblance to Ruby. When Willis mentioned this to the Commission, no interest was shown. When the photo was published in the Warren Report, a considerable part of the Ruby lookalike's face had been cropped away.

What was the final straw that pushed our own government to assassinate Kennedy?

On October 11, 1963 John F. Kennedy signed national security memorandom no. 263, which ordered 1000 American advisors home from Vietnam by December 25, 1963, and that the remainder of the U.S. military be withdrawn by 1965. Kennedy's and Johnson's Secretary of Defense Robert MacNamara has said that Kennedy was going to pull out of Vietnam after the 1964 election. In the film "The Fog of War", not only does McNamara say this, but a tape recording of Lyndon Johnson confirms that Kennedy was planning to withdraw from Vietnam, a position Johnson states he disapproved of. The day after Kennedy's funeral, on November 26, 1963, Lyndon Johnson signed national security resolution no. 273, which completely reversed Kennedy's plan for a withdrawal from Vietnam. Then Johnson fraudulently used the gulf of Tonkin resolution as a blank check to fund the massive military buildup in Vietnam, an agreement Johnson apparently made with the CIA in exchange for them taking out Kennedy, and handing the presidency to him.
"THE WINK": CONGRESSMAN ALBERT THOMAS KNOWINGLY WINKS AT A SMILING LBJ AFTER THE ASSASSINATION
There is evidence that Lyndon Johnson was directly involved. Johnson was seen ducking down in his car a good 30 to 40 seconds before the first shots were fired, even before the car turned onto Houston street. Lyndon Johnson was acting as if he knew bullets would soon be flying, ducking down repeatedly before the shots went off. At the ceremony of Johnson being sworn in as president, Congressman Albert Thomas was photographed knowingly winking at a smiling LBJ, while JFK's grieving widow stood next to Johnson.

The night before the Kennedy assassination Johnson met with Dallas tycoons, FBI moguls and organized crime kingpins. Johnson's mistress, Madeleine Duncan Brown recalled that "Johnson emerged from the conference to tell her, "'after tomorrow those S.O.B.'s, the Kennedy's, will never embarrass me again - that's no threat - that's a promise.'" "They had this lodge outside of Dallas and they met there on November 21, 1963. Johnson chose different people to do certain things for him, and the group included Oswald's assassin, Jack Ruby. Brown described Ruby as the "in man" in Texas who could be trusted to arrange call girls, drugs, gambling fixes and even contract killings.

According to Madeleine Brown, the group at the meeting included J. Edgar Hoover, Clyde Tolson, John J. McCloy, Jack Ruby, numerous mafia kingpins, several newspaper and TV reporters, and Richard Nixon." Oddly enough, over ten years later Richard Nixon was forced to resign because of the John F. Kennedy assassination. The break-in at the Watergate offices of the Democratic National Committee would have never become the issue to topple a President, except for the need to protect just WHY the crime had been committed. The Democrats had obtained photographs which showed Nixon "associate" E. Howard Hunt to be one of the three tramps arrested and then released in Dealey Plaza.

This is why Hunt led the break-in at the Watergate. He was protecting his own posterior. Rather than risk exposure of a far worse scandal, Nixon resigned, turning over the White House to Gerald Ford, the Warren Commission member who would later admit that he had altered the official location of JFK's back wound for the commission. Johnson was still irate when he called Madeleine Brown the morning of the assassination, telling her the Kennedy family would never embarrass him again. Brown highlighted how people who were set to testify against Johnson for indictment proceedings, related to illegal kickbacks Johnson was receiving from agriculture programs before the assassination, were mysteriously set-up in homosexual scandals or found dead, having allegedly shot themselves five times in the head. "Had the assassination not happened the day that it did, Lyndon Johnson would have probably gone to prison - they would have gotten rid of him - he was so involved in this."

Immediately following JFK's assassination in Dallas, government agents fanned out through the crowd, and confiscated all the films that were being taken of Kennedy's motorcade. One exception was Abraham Zapruders home movie. This film was purchased by Time magazine. Time magazine promptly altered key frames,and eliminated others, in order to obstruct and eliminate key evidence of a conspiracy. Those home movies that were seized by the government that afternoon, were never seen or heard again. Regis Kennedy, one of the FBI agents who was gathering up those home movies that afternoon, was supenoed by the House select committee on assassinations, to explain what happened to all those home movies. On the very day he was to testify to that committee, he was found murdered. Over 200 key witnesses to JFK's assassination, who could have testified to the truth of what happened that day, have died under mysterious circumstances, or have been outright murdered.
THE THREE TRAMPS. RAOUL IN FRONT, STURGIS AND HUNT IN THE REAR
So exactly who shot JFK? The same hit men the CIA planned to use against Cuban president Fidel Castro, including the famous Watergate burglars E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis, were brought into Dealy plaza on November 22, 1963. Immediately after JFK's assassination, law enforcement officers conducted a search of the area behind the grassy knoll, from which many witnesses heard gunshots and saw smoke just after the shots rang out. There were several railroad boxcars in this area. Some of these witnesses saw men running from the fence behind the knoll toward the boxcars. As a result three men were found in one boxcar.

They were arrested. These men came to be known as "The three tramps". They were arrested right after the president of the United States was killed, but strangely enough the police did not book, photograph or fingerprint them, and they were released. One thing they didn't expect however, was that as the police led the three derelicts through Dealey Plaza to the sheriff's office, they were photographed by several press photographers. When allegations of a CIA connection with Kennedy's death emerged, these photographs received wide publicity in newspapers, television and in the April 28, 1975 issue of Newsweek magazine. Two of the derelicts or "tramps", as they had come to be called, bore striking resemblances to Nixon burglars E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis respectively, who both worked for the CIA. The 3rd tramp is often referred to as "Raoul", and is a bullseye for the Martin Luther King assassination suspect circulated by the police after King was killed. James Earl Ray would later claim he was set up by a man named "Raoul".
STURGIS AS TRAMP IN 1963, AND AS NIXON BURGLAR IN 1973
HUNT AS TRAMP IN 1963, AND AS NIXON BURGLAR IN 1973
A book titled Coup D'Etat in America, by Alan J. Weberman and Michael Canfield, came out with compelling evidence that two of the three "tramps" arrested in Dallas on November 22 were E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis. When Coup D'Etat in America came out, Hunt sued for millions of dollars in damages, claiming he could prove that he had been in Washington D.C. that day, on duty at CIA. It turned out, however, that this was not true. So, he said that he had been on leave and doing household errands, including a shopping trip to a grocery store in Chinatown. Weberman and Canfield investigated the new alibi and found that the grocery store where Hunt claimed to be shopping never existed. At this point, Hunt offered to drop his suit for a token payment of one dollar.

But the authors were determined to vindicate themselves, and they continued to attack Hunt's alibi, ultimately completely shattering it. Using the principles of Biometrics, lines and angles are measured and compared to create a template. The templates are then overlaid for matching. When the pictures of two of the derilicts were tested biometrically against Frank Sturgis and E. Howard Hunt, they came up as 100% perfect matches. It would seem beyond a shadow of doubt that both Hunt and Sturgis worked for the CIA not only as Nixon burglars, but also as part of the team the CIA sent out to assassinate JFK.

Assassinating Kennedy, and putting their man Johnson into the presidency helped the military industrial complex and the shadow government reassert their power, and that will help you understand what's been going on in America ever since Kennedy's assassination. These treasonous murderers are opposed to everything the United States is supposed to represent, such as truth, freedom and justice. This is why they go to such great lengths to keep their methods of operation, their true purpose, and even their existence, under a cloak of secrecy. If Americans knew the truth about all of this, they would rise up in anger, and hold them all accountable. As long as these forces remain in control of the government, the coverup will continue.

The truth behind the JFK assassination will never be told by the establishment. You and I are subject to their corrupt and injust court system, while they are above the law. International bankers and all of their branch organizations are at the head of this shadow government, and the assassination of president Kennedy was nothing short of a coup, implemented by them. Their pawns in the media keep the American people from learning how their government has been overthrown by them, and they have been, more or less, in complete control of the U.S. government ever since they assassinated JFK on November 22, 1963.

Of course you'd find factual data ridiculous...

No surprise here...