No sane person gives a [bleep].

Yeah...a wide swath is required to cover a broad spectrum of goofballs.

What does that change at this point? Look forward, not backward.

Oh, and I don't believe we ever put a stinkin' human animal on the moon either! We did NOT have the technology back then and we can't get an 'orbiter' up and down without frying the crew in this day and age. Besides, if we ever once did go, why did we stop? THAT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT WAY TO JUST STOP SPENDING MONEY!

Stupid fluoride...

Then explain how there's stuff on the moon, like a mirror, that's been there since the Apollo program.

LBJ had JFK wacked. It was a coup. Period.

Wasnt the first till then, and wasnt the last since then.

Did The Shot That Killed JFK Come From The Grassy Knoll?

well trj you sure put on the tinfoil and drew your brethren out tonite

Well, considering that what few brains JFK had were splattered all over Jackie (to his left and slightly behind him) and all across the trunk lid of the car he was riding in, the shot sure as hell didn't come from behind and a stinkin' 6.5 Carcano rifle!
Anyone one of you gentlemen who has ever hunted successfully know the direction the "mess" goes when the game is hit. Kennedy was just somebody's game!
.
Do I care today, who did it? He//, no, as it doesn't matter to me. Somehow I think ol' Jack 'earned' that bullet but for the he// of it I don't know who paid him with it! It just wasn't Oswald no matter what the government wants us to believe.
.
Oh, and I don't believe we ever put a stinkin' human animal on the moon either! We did NOT have the technology back then and we can't get an 'orbiter' up and down without frying the crew in this day and age. Besides, if we ever once did go, why did we stop? THAT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT WAY TO JUST STOP SPENDING MONEY!

Archer Parr and George Parr

Why do you do these things to yourself?

I find that question intriguing. Could you elaborate?

Listen Here

Does any rational person really believe that a known felon was going to walk into secure police facility that was heavily guarded by cops that knew Ruby, at the precise time the then most infamous criminal in history exited a door from the police facility while walking between two cops, walk up to Oswald unopposed, and shoot him?

The cameraman that took the picture of Oswald wincing as he was allegedly shot said he never saw a drop of blood.

Was Oswald really killed in the ambulance on the way to hospital?

I believe Oswald shot JFK. But I do not believe he acted without principals who put him up to it.

Oswald had started his job that accorded him ability to shoot JFK two weeks prior to the murder. Coincidence? I doubt it.

No sane person gives a [bleep].

James Files. Patsy. Who cares? ....many. Big people in bigger dark places put it together. Doesn't matter who fired the shots.

Why do you do these things to yourself?

After hearing that I'm going to grab my bug-out pack, scout rifle in hand, and head for the hills. Gonna take some silver and gold too, while scrupulously avoiding chem trail areas... of course I'll be equipped with the latest gear including my prized gore-tex tinfoil hat...

Stupid fluoride...

Why do you do these things to yourself?

Nothing like the mother of all kook-konspiracy theories to bring out the best in our KOTY. ANYBODY with half a brain (that leaves quite a few of you out) that knows anything about guns and ballistics and the incredibly EASY shot Oswald had to take would know better. I've been there several times and also a friend of mine who is a retired Scout Sniper. You could have nailed him with a BOW the shot is so close. But kooks, do carry on...

Also, wasn't there a rather large tree in full fall foliage between the purported sniper's nest window and JFK?

Who cares as long as it was a Kennedy that was disposed of?

Without a doubt at least one shot came from the grassy knoll.

The History Channel did a 6 hour series on this a few years back. Very interesting. It is titled "The Men Who Killed Kennedy". It was avaiable for purchase on their website a few years ago.

No, the view was clear...

Why do you become so hostile to the mere notion of a discussion of this topic on an open forum designed for discussion? Also, wasn't there a rather large tree in full fall foliage between the purported sniper's nest window and JFK?

For only a split second.

For only a split second.

Because I'm pretty tired of the tenor of pretty much all of your threads, that's why. What I need to do is just stop reading them...

For like 10 split seconds...

Also, wasn't there a rather large tree in full fall foliage between the purported sniper's nest window and JFK?

BULLSHIT. Have you ever been there? I HAVE and looked out the very window. Given the vehicles speed and direction, it was a piece of cake..

Without a doubt at least one shot came from the grassy knoll.

The History Channel did a 6 hour series on this a few years back. Very interesting. It is titled "The Men Who Killed Kennedy". It was avaiable for purchase on their website a few years ago.

Also interesting was a book written by the brother of Sam Giancana, the Chicago mob boss. In the book, he relates a converation with Sam, where Sam alludes to his role in the assasination.

There are several valid reasons for Giancana wanting Kennedy dead. I do not recall the title of the book, but one should be able to search for it on the internet.

Another interesting read that also brushes on the assassination is called "The Band Played On".

Give them a read and see what you think.

Hours and hours and hours of rehashed scenarios have been played out ad nauseum with the tree in place, TRH.

This horse has been resurrected and beat over and over and over again.

Don't mind that though, I'd hate for facts to get in the way of your really cool story...

Blame Canada, it worked for South Park...

Hours and hours and hours of rehashed scenarios have been played out ad nauseum with the tree in place, TRH.

This horse has been resurrected and beat over and over and over again.

Don't mind that though, I'd hate for facts to get in the way of your really cool story...

Blame Canada, it worked for South Park...

BULLSHIT. Have you ever been there? I HAVE and looked out the very window. Given the vehicles speed and direction, it was a piece of cake..

My curiosity is the degree to which you're concerned about the matter even being discussed on an open forum. If you're convinced that folks are mere kooks who are open to the possibility of a conspiracy in the case of the JFK assassination, just dismiss them as such and move on. Why seek the suppression of the discussion?

Listen, ACE, the road where the shots hit the president are marked with a white "X" on the pavement and very easy to discern how the whole event went down. One shooter, and easy shots. end of story

Who did I call a kook?

I thought I was participating in the discussion...

Who's suppressing who here?

Pointing out the ridiculous isn't part of a discussion?

Pointing out the ridiculous isn't part of a discussion? You do it all the time...

Only when you post because what you do post is ridiculous.

It's about like trying to convince a devout religious fanatic that their faith is askew.

And would you be the omniscient one to point that out to a, "...devout religious fanatic..."?

You're a dedicated conspiracy theorist.

Rather, I'm a convinced believer in the imperfectability of human nature and a student of history. That's all that one requires to be open to the possibility (likelihood, in fact) of conspiracy.

John F. Kennedy was far from perfect, in his personal life, or in some of the decisions he made as president. However, unlike most presidents, he had some good ideas, and he had plans to enact them. For example, he had plans to abolish the Federal Reserve system, which prints worthless money backed by nothing, and charges interest on it, making us a debtor nation to a group of international bankers. He wanted to use United States Notes, and he signed a presidential document, called Executive Order 11110, on June 4, 1963.

This gave JFK, as U.S. President, legal clearance to create true money, that would belong to the people, and eliminate the Federal Reserve Bank, and their false money. Kennedy had already begun issuing U.S. government money that was free of debt to replace the Federal Reserve dollars we have been using. A number of "Kennedy bills" were indeed issued - with the heading "United States Note", instead of "Federal Reserve Note" - but were quickly withdrawn after Kennedy's death. Records show that Kennedy issued $4,292,893,825 of true money. It was clear that Kennedy was out to eliminate the criminal Federal Reserve System. It is interesting to note that, only one day after Kennedy's assassination, all the United States notes which Kennedy had issued were called out of circulation. All of the money President Kennedy had created was destroyed, and not a word was said to the American people.
A "KENNEDY BILL" ISSUED IN 1963, WITH "UNITED STATES NOTE" REPLACING "FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE"
In 1962, the Joint Chiefs of Staff presented Kennedy with Operation Northwoods. Operation Northwoods would have had our own government inflicting terrorist attacks upon US citizens, and blaming it on our enemies, to justify wars and political assassinations. Kennedy rejected it. He planned to abolish the CIA's right to conduct covert operations, and eventually dismantle it. Kennedy said he would "splinter the CIA into a Thousand Pieces". Kennedy's intent to abolish the Federal Reserve Bank, his rejection of Operation Northwoods, and his plan to eliminate CIA covert operations planted the seeds for the CIA's assassination of him.

Lee Harvey Oswald was linked to virtually every group that had a reason to want Kennedy dead. In the years before Kennedy's death as a Marine, Oswald worked as a radar operator at U-2 spy plane bases. After leaving the Marines he defected to the Soviet Union. While in Russia he married the niece of a KGB colonel, and he lived in relative luxury, likely in exchange for false or already outdated information on the U-2 that he passed to the Russians. Oswald apparently pretended to be a traitor to America, while actually working for the CIA. On returning to the U.S. Oswald propagandized for Castro's Cuba out of a New Orleans building he shared with a CIA/FBI agent trying to overthrow Castro named Guy Banister. Delphine Roberts worked for Banister. She said that, "Mr. Banister had been a special agent for the FBI and CIA." She saw her CIA agent boss meet with Lee Harvey Oswald in September 1963. This story was supported by her daughter, who also met Oswald during this period. Oswald also distributed Pro-Castro leaflets in New Orleans in 1963, with the address of his CIA contact Banister stamped on them.
There was a three-page letter from CIA Director John McCone to Secret Service Chief James Rowley in which McCone acknowledges Oswald worked for the CIA, and was in Russia for that purpose, not as a defector. It discussed how this information should be withheld from the Warren Commission. Allen Dulles' advice to other members of the Warren Commission was that CIA operatives consider it their patriotic duty to lie under oath if necessary to protect "Company" secrets. A Dallas deputy sheriff, Allen Sweatt, was quoted as saying that Oswald was being paid $200 a month by the government at the time of the assassination, and had been assigned an informant number. In October 1963 Oswald moved to Dallas where he got a job in the Texas Book Depository for $1.25 an hour boxing and shipping books.

It's beyond strange how someone who was so clearly connected to the CIA would just happen to get a job working at one of the best sniping points in Dallas, by which the President's open car motorcade would just happen to pass a few weeks after he started working there. Oswald was set up to be the fall guy. On November 22, 1963 at the book depository, around 12:15, secretary Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald in the second floor snack room, where she said he went for a Coke. He was sitting in one of the booths alone, as usual, and appeared to be having lunch. She testified: "I did not speak to him, but I recognized him clearly. I remember it was 12:15 or later. It could have been 12:25, five minutes before the assassination, I don't exactly remember." At the same time, Bonnie Ray Williams was on the sixth floor until 12:20, and he saw nobody. Down on the street, Arnold Rowland saw two men in the sixth floor windows, presumably after Bonnie Ray Williams finished his lunch and left.
Kennedy's motorcade was running late. He was due at the Trade Mart at 12:25. If Oswald was one of the assassins, he was pretty nonchalant about getting himself into position. Later he told Dallas police he was standing in the second floor snackroom. A maximum 90 seconds after Kennedy was shot, patrolman Marrion Baker ran into Oswald in that second story lunchroom. He asked Oswald's boss, "Do you know this man? Is he an employee?" He told Baker that he was. As Baker moved on, he told Oswald, "The President's been shot!" Oswald reacted as if he had heard it for the first time.

What the Official Party Line would have us believe is that after firing 3 bolt action shots in 6 seconds, Oswald then left three cartridges neatly side by side in the firing nest, wiped the rifle clear of fingerprints, stashed the rifle on the other side of the loft, sprinted down five flights of stairs, past Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles, who would have, but never saw him, and then showed up cool and calm on the second floor in front of Patrolman Baker within 90 seconds of the shooting the president. Was he out of breath? According to Baker, absolutely not. Was Oswald a "patsy", as he claimed? Most certainly. Whatever can be said of Oswald, one thing is certain: he either knowingly or unknowingly was a pawn for those responsible for assassinating Kennedy.
CLICK HERE TO HEAR JFK CRITCIZE THE SECRET GOVERNMENT
Jack Ruby, Oswald's assassin, had been stalking Oswald from the time immediately following the assassination, to the moment he shot him. Phillip Willis took a series of 12 photos of Dealey Plaza, where Kennedy was shot, in the minutes before and after the assassination. Mr. Willis' photos and testimony before the Warren Commission appear in the Warren Commission's report. He was not questioned about the eighth photo, a shot of the Book Depository entrance shortly after the assassination. As Willis later pointed out, one of the men in the photo "looks so much like Jack Ruby, Oswald's soon to be assassin, it's pitiful". F.B.I. agents questioning Willis agreed with him that the man bore a powerful resemblance to Ruby. When Willis mentioned this to the Commission, no interest was shown. When the photo was published in the Warren Report, a considerable part of the Ruby lookalike's face had been cropped away.

What was the final straw that pushed our own government to assassinate Kennedy?

On October 11, 1963 John F. Kennedy signed national security memorandom no. 263, which ordered 1000 American advisors home from Vietnam by December 25, 1963, and that the remainder of the U.S. military be withdrawn by 1965. Kennedy's and Johnson's Secretary of Defense Robert MacNamara has said that Kennedy was going to pull out of Vietnam after the 1964 election. In the film "The Fog of War", not only does McNamara say this, but a tape recording of Lyndon Johnson confirms that Kennedy was planning to withdraw from Vietnam, a position Johnson states he disapproved of. The day after Kennedy's funeral, on November 26, 1963, Lyndon Johnson signed national security resolution no. 273, which completely reversed Kennedy's plan for a withdrawal from Vietnam. Then Johnson fraudulently used the gulf of Tonkin resolution as a blank check to fund the massive military buildup in Vietnam, an agreement Johnson apparently made with the CIA in exchange for them taking out Kennedy, and handing the presidency to him.
"THE WINK": CONGRESSMAN ALBERT THOMAS KNOWINGLY WINKS AT A SMILING LBJ AFTER THE ASSASSINATION
There is evidence that Lyndon Johnson was directly involved. Johnson was seen ducking down in his car a good 30 to 40 seconds before the first shots were fired, even before the car turned onto Houston street. Lyndon Johnson was acting as if he knew bullets would soon be flying, ducking down repeatedly before the shots went off. At the ceremony of Johnson being sworn in as president, Congressman Albert Thomas was photographed knowingly winking at a smiling LBJ, while JFK's grieving widow stood next to Johnson.

The night before the Kennedy assassination Johnson met with Dallas tycoons, FBI moguls and organized crime kingpins. Johnson's mistress, Madeleine Duncan Brown recalled that "Johnson emerged from the conference to tell her, "'after tomorrow those S.O.B.'s, the Kennedy's, will never embarrass me again - that's no threat - that's a promise.'" "They had this lodge outside of Dallas and they met there on November 21, 1963. Johnson chose different people to do certain things for him, and the group included Oswald's assassin, Jack Ruby. Brown described Ruby as the "in man" in Texas who could be trusted to arrange call girls, drugs, gambling fixes and even contract killings.

According to Madeleine Brown, the group at the meeting included J. Edgar Hoover, Clyde Tolson, John J. McCloy, Jack Ruby, numerous mafia kingpins, several newspaper and TV reporters, and Richard Nixon." Oddly enough, over ten years later Richard Nixon was forced to resign because of the John F. Kennedy assassination. The break-in at the Watergate offices of the Democratic National Committee would have never become the issue to topple a President, except for the need to protect just WHY the crime had been committed. The Democrats had obtained photographs which showed Nixon "associate" E. Howard Hunt to be one of the three tramps arrested and then released in Dealey Plaza.

This is why Hunt led the break-in at the Watergate. He was protecting his own posterior. Rather than risk exposure of a far worse scandal, Nixon resigned, turning over the White House to Gerald Ford, the Warren Commission member who would later admit that he had altered the official location of JFK's back wound for the commission. Johnson was still irate when he called Madeleine Brown the morning of the assassination, telling her the Kennedy family would never embarrass him again. Brown highlighted how people who were set to testify against Johnson for indictment proceedings, related to illegal kickbacks Johnson was receiving from agriculture programs before the assassination, were mysteriously set-up in homosexual scandals or found dead, having allegedly shot themselves five times in the head. "Had the assassination not happened the day that it did, Lyndon Johnson would have probably gone to prison - they would have gotten rid of him - he was so involved in this."

Immediately following JFK's assassination in Dallas, government agents fanned out through the crowd, and confiscated all the films that were being taken of Kennedy's motorcade. One exception was Abraham Zapruders home movie. This film was purchased by Time magazine. Time magazine promptly altered key frames,and eliminated others, in order to obstruct and eliminate key evidence of a conspiracy. Those home movies that were seized by the government that afternoon, were never seen or heard again. Regis Kennedy, one of the FBI agents who was gathering up those home movies that afternoon, was supenoed by the House select committee on assassinations, to explain what happened to all those home movies. On the very day he was to testify to that committee, he was found murdered. Over 200 key witnesses to JFK's assassination, who could have testified to the truth of what happened that day, have died under mysterious circumstances, or have been outright murdered.
THE THREE TRAMPS. RAOUL IN FRONT, STURGIS AND HUNT IN THE REAR
So exactly who shot JFK? The same hit men the CIA planned to use against Cuban president Fidel Castro, including the famous Watergate burglars E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis, were brought into Dealy plaza on November 22, 1963. Immediately after JFK's assassination, law enforcement officers conducted a search of the area behind the grassy knoll, from which many witnesses heard gunshots and saw smoke just after the shots rang out. There were several railroad boxcars in this area. Some of these witnesses saw men running from the fence behind the knoll toward the boxcars. As a result three men were found in one boxcar.

They were arrested. These men came to be known as "The three tramps". They were arrested right after the president of the United States was killed, but strangely enough the police did not book, photograph or fingerprint them, and they were released. One thing they didn't expect however, was that as the police led the three derelicts through Dealey Plaza to the sheriff's office, they were photographed by several press photographers. When allegations of a CIA connection with Kennedy's death emerged, these photographs received wide publicity in newspapers, television and in the April 28, 1975 issue of Newsweek magazine. Two of the derelicts or "tramps", as they had come to be called, bore striking resemblances to Nixon burglars E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis respectively, who both worked for the CIA. The 3rd tramp is often referred to as "Raoul", and is a bullseye for the Martin Luther King assassination suspect circulated by the police after King was killed. James Earl Ray would later claim he was set up by a man named "Raoul".
STURGIS AS TRAMP IN 1963, AND AS NIXON BURGLAR IN 1973
HUNT AS TRAMP IN 1963, AND AS NIXON BURGLAR IN 1973
A book titled Coup D'Etat in America, by Alan J. Weberman and Michael Canfield, came out with compelling evidence that two of the three "tramps" arrested in Dallas on November 22 were E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis. When Coup D'Etat in America came out, Hunt sued for millions of dollars in damages, claiming he could prove that he had been in Washington D.C. that day, on duty at CIA. It turned out, however, that this was not true. So, he said that he had been on leave and doing household errands, including a shopping trip to a grocery store in Chinatown. Weberman and Canfield investigated the new alibi and found that the grocery store where Hunt claimed to be shopping never existed. At this point, Hunt offered to drop his suit for a token payment of one dollar.

But the authors were determined to vindicate themselves, and they continued to attack Hunt's alibi, ultimately completely shattering it. Using the principles of Biometrics, lines and angles are measured and compared to create a template. The templates are then overlaid for matching. When the pictures of two of the derilicts were tested biometrically against Frank Sturgis and E. Howard Hunt, they came up as 100% perfect matches. It would seem beyond a shadow of doubt that both Hunt and Sturgis worked for the CIA not only as Nixon burglars, but also as part of the team the CIA sent out to assassinate JFK.

Assassinating Kennedy, and putting their man Johnson into the presidency helped the military industrial complex and the shadow government reassert their power, and that will help you understand what's been going on in America ever since Kennedy's assassination. These treasonous murderers are opposed to everything the United States is supposed to represent, such as truth, freedom and justice. This is why they go to such great lengths to keep their methods of operation, their true purpose, and even their existence, under a cloak of secrecy. If Americans knew the truth about all of this, they would rise up in anger, and hold them all accountable. As long as these forces remain in control of the government, the coverup will continue.

The truth behind the JFK assassination will never be told by the establishment. You and I are subject to their corrupt and injust court system, while they are above the law. International bankers and all of their branch organizations are at the head of this shadow government, and the assassination of president Kennedy was nothing short of a coup, implemented by them. Their pawns in the media keep the American people from learning how their government has been overthrown by them, and they have been, more or less, in complete control of the U.S. government ever since they assassinated JFK on November 22, 1963.

So it shouldn't be discussed any further, right? Jorge has spoken?

Good read. Thanks.

True, a student of Human Nature, Natural Law, and History would indeed be open to the likelihood of conspiracies. They are a fact of life.

The problem is that you're not a very good student of history. As history has laid out the facts about this event, over and over and over again. Each time the conclusion is clear, Oswald acted alone.

Since the facts are dismissed, you are left with a theory. Thus, you are in fact a conspiracy theorist, when it comes to this topic. In fairness, I will isolate this topic from others, and apply the title "conspiracy theorist" to where it fits.

Actually, I'm in the middle of reading it now. It's been recommended so often around here, that I figured I'd give it a peek.

Excellent! Are you reading the Modern Library edition?

Don't know, the book is in my car right now, as I'm at work. I'll have to get back to you on that...

I didn't actually know there were editions...

Yeah, with a full time job, full time enrollment in college, a 12 yr old boy, a wife, and a newborn all on my plate right now, it's hard for me to find time to read. 1470 pages used to be easy, now the idea is rather daunting.

I thought it was six?

Regardless, it carries around a hell of a lot easier on my Kindle.....

George

I thought it was six?

Regardless, it carries around a hell of a lot easier on my Kindle.....

George

Maybe I'll go that route after finishing this one...

I've still got Plato's Republic, Utopia, Democracy in America, Common Sense, and Leviathan to work through on my Kindle...

Looking forward to fall break...

No. I did it. I was living on Guam at the time. Came from the crest of the cliff overlooking Ritidian Point on the north end of the rock. Helluva shot but not my best.

Now you know. Have a couple of drinks and go to bed.

Yeah, with a full time job, full time enrollment in college, a 12 yr old boy, a wife, and a newborn all on my plate right now, it's hard for me to find time to read. 1470 pages used to be easy, now the idea is rather daunting.

Yeah, with a full time job, full time enrollment in college, a 12 yr old boy, a wife, and a newborn all on my plate right now, it's hard for me to find time to read. 1470 pages used to be easy, now the idea is rather daunting.

Nothing like the mother of all kook-konspiracy theories to bring out the best in our KOTY. ANYBODY with half a brain (that leaves quite a few of you out) that knows anything about guns and ballistics and the incredibly EASY shot Oswald had to take would know better. I've been there several times and also a friend of mine who is a retired Scout Sniper. You could have nailed him with a BOW the shot is so close. But kooks, do carry on...

The_Real_Hawkeye,

Since I value your opinion, and many scholars who have studied Kennedy's murder share it, please allow me to ask you this: if Oswald did not murder Kennedy, what motivated him to murder an Dallas cop in effort to escape?

Oswald acted alone. This has been hashed out bit by bit over and over and over again. The end result is always the same. Oswald acted alone. Period.


But that's boring...

Why let facts get in the way of a good story, eh!?

Why do you become so hostile to the mere notion of a discussion of this topic on an open forum designed for discussion? Also, wasn't there a rather large tree in full fall foliage between the purported sniper's nest window and JFK?

I can't even say that you're a kook when it comes to this topic as you're actually in the majority. 81% of American's believe that there was a conspiracy here.

It's just too good a story! Can't let the facts ruin it!

Like Roswell.

The_Real_Hawkeye,

Since I value your opinion, and many scholars who have studied Kennedy's murder share it, please allow me to ask you this: if Oswald did not murder Kennedy, what motivated him to murder an Dallas cop in effort to escape?

Until you take a trip to Deely Plaza and see for yourself, there's just no use in arguing. There is NO WAY, given the trajectories involved that any shot could have come from the grassy knoll. And my observation has nothing to do nor relies on the Warren Commission's findings but rather on the recent video and computer enhancement programs replicating the exact geometry of the incident and of course my own observations from having spent many hours on the Site. That shot was a piece of cake. So let me ask you, who do you think was behind it?

I've stood behind the fence, stood on the "X" where he was shot, stood on the grassy knoll and in the sniper's nest. The shot foisted on the public is doable but not as good as several others.

Until you take a trip to Deely Plaza and see for yourself, there's just no use in arguing. There is NO WAY, given the trajectories involved that any shot could have come from the grassy knoll. And my observation has nothing to do nor relies on the Warren Commission's findings but rather on the recent video and computer enhancement programs replicating the exact geometry of the incident and of course my own observations from having spent many hours on the Site. That shot was a piece of cake. So let me ask you, who do you think was behind it?

Edited to add: What specifically do you imply when you say "your government"?

Who cares as long as it was a Kennedy that was disposed of?

-sniff-

No, I don't think so. It was a Live Oak, which is an evergreen meaning it would have been in full foliage year round which makes your case even stronger. I barely recall this part of the argument, but that's what I remember.

It's obvious you guys don't believe me. -sniff-

Until you take a trip to Deely Plaza and see for yourself, there's just no use in arguing. There is NO WAY, given the trajectories involved that any shot could have come from the grassy knoll. And my observation has nothing to do nor relies on the Warren Commission's findings but rather on the recent video and computer enhancement programs replicating the exact geometry of the incident and of course my own observations from having spent many hours on the Site. That shot was a piece of cake. So let me ask you, who do you think was behind it?

Edited to add: What specifically do you imply when you say "your government"?

The ten-month investigation by the Warren Commission concluded that Kennedy was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone and that Jack Ruby acted alone when he killed Oswald before he could stand trial.

However, polls conducted from 1966 to 2004 found that as many as 80 percent of Americans have suspected that there was a plot or cover-up.[4][5]

Contrary to the Warren Commission, the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) concluded that Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy.[

The HSCA found both the original FBI investigation and the Warren Commission Report to be seriously flawed.

While agreeing with the Commission that Oswald fired all the shots which caused the wounds to Kennedy and Connally, the HSCA stated that there were at least four shots fired and that there was "...a high probability that two gunmen fired at [the] President."[7] The HSCA did not identify any other person or group involved in the assassination besides Oswald, but they did specifically say the CIA, the Soviet Union, organized crime, and several other groups were not involved, although they could not rule out the involvement of individual members of those groups.

There are many proposed problems with the Tippit murder charge, one of which at random is the following: "Warren 'Butch' Burroughs, who ran the concession stand at the Texas Theater where Oswald was arrested, told author James Douglass in 2007 that Oswald came into the theater between 1:00 and 1:07 p.m., which if true would make Oswald's alleged 1:16 shooting of Officer J.D. Tippit impossible." Wikipedia

I stand corrected, but the stuff you wrote was not on the OP I responded to (below for reference). Frankly I don't have the desire to wade through all your posts before commenting and I still stand by my opinion. No way that shot came from the knoll.As far as making the shots, I guess we all know our abilities; and limitations.

The problem I have here is that would mean that Dallas PD cops allowed the real murderer of one of their brother officers to escape justice. And as politely as I can, I ain't buying it.

Also, when Oswald was arrested didn't he have in his possession the handgun used to murder the cop?


Take care,

T

I stand corrected, but the stuff you wrote was not on the OP I responded to (below for reference). Frankly I don't have the desire to wade through all your posts before commenting and I still stand by my opinion. No way that shot came from the knoll.As far as making the shots, I guess we all know our abilities; and limitations.

The problem I have here is that would mean that Dallas PD cops allowed the real murderer of one of their brother officers to escape justice. And as politely as I can, I ain't buying it.

Also, when Oswald was arrested didn't he have in his possession the handgun used to murder the cop?


Take care,

T

John F. Kennedy was far from perfect, in his personal life, or in some of the decisions he made as president. However, unlike most presidents, he had some good ideas, and he had plans to enact them. For example, he had plans to abolish the Federal Reserve system, which prints worthless money backed by nothing, and charges interest on it, making us a debtor nation to a group of international bankers. He wanted to use United States Notes, and he signed a presidential document, called Executive Order 11110, on June 4, 1963.

This gave JFK, as U.S. President, legal clearance to create true money, that would belong to the people, and eliminate the Federal Reserve Bank, and their false money. Kennedy had already begun issuing U.S. government money that was free of debt to replace the Federal Reserve dollars we have been using. A number of "Kennedy bills" were indeed issued - with the heading "United States Note", instead of "Federal Reserve Note" - but were quickly withdrawn after Kennedy's death. Records show that Kennedy issued $4,292,893,825 of true money. It was clear that Kennedy was out to eliminate the criminal Federal Reserve System. It is interesting to note that, only one day after Kennedy's assassination, all the United States notes which Kennedy had issued were called out of circulation. All of the money President Kennedy had created was destroyed, and not a word was said to the American people.
A "KENNEDY BILL" ISSUED IN 1963, WITH "UNITED STATES NOTE" REPLACING "FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE"
In 1962, the Joint Chiefs of Staff presented Kennedy with Operation Northwoods. Operation Northwoods would have had our own government inflicting terrorist attacks upon US citizens, and blaming it on our enemies, to justify wars and political assassinations. Kennedy rejected it. He planned to abolish the CIA's right to conduct covert operations, and eventually dismantle it. Kennedy said he would "splinter the CIA into a Thousand Pieces". Kennedy's intent to abolish the Federal Reserve Bank, his rejection of Operation Northwoods, and his plan to eliminate CIA covert operations planted the seeds for the CIA's assassination of him.

Lee Harvey Oswald was linked to virtually every group that had a reason to want Kennedy dead. In the years before Kennedy's death as a Marine, Oswald worked as a radar operator at U-2 spy plane bases. After leaving the Marines he defected to the Soviet Union. While in Russia he married the niece of a KGB colonel, and he lived in relative luxury, likely in exchange for false or already outdated information on the U-2 that he passed to the Russians. Oswald apparently pretended to be a traitor to America, while actually working for the CIA. On returning to the U.S. Oswald propagandized for Castro's Cuba out of a New Orleans building he shared with a CIA/FBI agent trying to overthrow Castro named Guy Banister. Delphine Roberts worked for Banister. She said that, "Mr. Banister had been a special agent for the FBI and CIA." She saw her CIA agent boss meet with Lee Harvey Oswald in September 1963. This story was supported by her daughter, who also met Oswald during this period. Oswald also distributed Pro-Castro leaflets in New Orleans in 1963, with the address of his CIA contact Banister stamped on them.
There was a three-page letter from CIA Director John McCone to Secret Service Chief James Rowley in which McCone acknowledges Oswald worked for the CIA, and was in Russia for that purpose, not as a defector. It discussed how this information should be withheld from the Warren Commission. Allen Dulles' advice to other members of the Warren Commission was that CIA operatives consider it their patriotic duty to lie under oath if necessary to protect "Company" secrets. A Dallas deputy sheriff, Allen Sweatt, was quoted as saying that Oswald was being paid $200 a month by the government at the time of the assassination, and had been assigned an informant number. In October 1963 Oswald moved to Dallas where he got a job in the Texas Book Depository for $1.25 an hour boxing and shipping books.

It's beyond strange how someone who was so clearly connected to the CIA would just happen to get a job working at one of the best sniping points in Dallas, by which the President's open car motorcade would just happen to pass a few weeks after he started working there. Oswald was set up to be the fall guy. On November 22, 1963 at the book depository, around 12:15, secretary Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald in the second floor snack room, where she said he went for a Coke. He was sitting in one of the booths alone, as usual, and appeared to be having lunch. She testified: "I did not speak to him, but I recognized him clearly. I remember it was 12:15 or later. It could have been 12:25, five minutes before the assassination, I don't exactly remember." At the same time, Bonnie Ray Williams was on the sixth floor until 12:20, and he saw nobody. Down on the street, Arnold Rowland saw two men in the sixth floor windows, presumably after Bonnie Ray Williams finished his lunch and left.
Kennedy's motorcade was running late. He was due at the Trade Mart at 12:25. If Oswald was one of the assassins, he was pretty nonchalant about getting himself into position. Later he told Dallas police he was standing in the second floor snackroom. A maximum 90 seconds after Kennedy was shot, patrolman Marrion Baker ran into Oswald in that second story lunchroom. He asked Oswald's boss, "Do you know this man? Is he an employee?" He told Baker that he was. As Baker moved on, he told Oswald, "The President's been shot!" Oswald reacted as if he had heard it for the first time.

What the Official Party Line would have us believe is that after firing 3 bolt action shots in 6 seconds, Oswald then left three cartridges neatly side by side in the firing nest, wiped the rifle clear of fingerprints, stashed the rifle on the other side of the loft, sprinted down five flights of stairs, past Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles, who would have, but never saw him, and then showed up cool and calm on the second floor in front of Patrolman Baker within 90 seconds of the shooting the president. Was he out of breath? According to Baker, absolutely not. Was Oswald a "patsy", as he claimed? Most certainly. Whatever can be said of Oswald, one thing is certain: he either knowingly or unknowingly was a pawn for those responsible for assassinating Kennedy.
CLICK HERE TO HEAR JFK CRITCIZE THE SECRET GOVERNMENT
Jack Ruby, Oswald's assassin, had been stalking Oswald from the time immediately following the assassination, to the moment he shot him. Phillip Willis took a series of 12 photos of Dealey Plaza, where Kennedy was shot, in the minutes before and after the assassination. Mr. Willis' photos and testimony before the Warren Commission appear in the Warren Commission's report. He was not questioned about the eighth photo, a shot of the Book Depository entrance shortly after the assassination. As Willis later pointed out, one of the men in the photo "looks so much like Jack Ruby, Oswald's soon to be assassin, it's pitiful". F.B.I. agents questioning Willis agreed with him that the man bore a powerful resemblance to Ruby. When Willis mentioned this to the Commission, no interest was shown. When the photo was published in the Warren Report, a considerable part of the Ruby lookalike's face had been cropped away.

What was the final straw that pushed our own government to assassinate Kennedy?

On October 11, 1963 John F. Kennedy signed national security memorandom no. 263, which ordered 1000 American advisors home from Vietnam by December 25, 1963, and that the remainder of the U.S. military be withdrawn by 1965. Kennedy's and Johnson's Secretary of Defense Robert MacNamara has said that Kennedy was going to pull out of Vietnam after the 1964 election. In the film "The Fog of War", not only does McNamara say this, but a tape recording of Lyndon Johnson confirms that Kennedy was planning to withdraw from Vietnam, a position Johnson states he disapproved of. The day after Kennedy's funeral, on November 26, 1963, Lyndon Johnson signed national security resolution no. 273, which completely reversed Kennedy's plan for a withdrawal from Vietnam. Then Johnson fraudulently used the gulf of Tonkin resolution as a blank check to fund the massive military buildup in Vietnam, an agreement Johnson apparently made with the CIA in exchange for them taking out Kennedy, and handing the presidency to him.
"THE WINK": CONGRESSMAN ALBERT THOMAS KNOWINGLY WINKS AT A SMILING LBJ AFTER THE ASSASSINATION
There is evidence that Lyndon Johnson was directly involved. Johnson was seen ducking down in his car a good 30 to 40 seconds before the first shots were fired, even before the car turned onto Houston street. Lyndon Johnson was acting as if he knew bullets would soon be flying, ducking down repeatedly before the shots went off. At the ceremony of Johnson being sworn in as president, Congressman Albert Thomas was photographed knowingly winking at a smiling LBJ, while JFK's grieving widow stood next to Johnson.

The night before the Kennedy assassination Johnson met with Dallas tycoons, FBI moguls and organized crime kingpins. Johnson's mistress, Madeleine Duncan Brown recalled that "Johnson emerged from the conference to tell her, "'after tomorrow those S.O.B.'s, the Kennedy's, will never embarrass me again - that's no threat - that's a promise.'" "They had this lodge outside of Dallas and they met there on November 21, 1963. Johnson chose different people to do certain things for him, and the group included Oswald's assassin, Jack Ruby. Brown described Ruby as the "in man" in Texas who could be trusted to arrange call girls, drugs, gambling fixes and even contract killings.

According to Madeleine Brown, the group at the meeting included J. Edgar Hoover, Clyde Tolson, John J. McCloy, Jack Ruby, numerous mafia kingpins, several newspaper and TV reporters, and Richard Nixon." Oddly enough, over ten years later Richard Nixon was forced to resign because of the John F. Kennedy assassination. The break-in at the Watergate offices of the Democratic National Committee would have never become the issue to topple a President, except for the need to protect just WHY the crime had been committed. The Democrats had obtained photographs which showed Nixon "associate" E. Howard Hunt to be one of the three tramps arrested and then released in Dealey Plaza.

This is why Hunt led the break-in at the Watergate. He was protecting his own posterior. Rather than risk exposure of a far worse scandal, Nixon resigned, turning over the White House to Gerald Ford, the Warren Commission member who would later admit that he had altered the official location of JFK's back wound for the commission. Johnson was still irate when he called Madeleine Brown the morning of the assassination, telling her the Kennedy family would never embarrass him again. Brown highlighted how people who were set to testify against Johnson for indictment proceedings, related to illegal kickbacks Johnson was receiving from agriculture programs before the assassination, were mysteriously set-up in homosexual scandals or found dead, having allegedly shot themselves five times in the head. "Had the assassination not happened the day that it did, Lyndon Johnson would have probably gone to prison - they would have gotten rid of him - he was so involved in this."

Immediately following JFK's assassination in Dallas, government agents fanned out through the crowd, and confiscated all the films that were being taken of Kennedy's motorcade. One exception was Abraham Zapruders home movie. This film was purchased by Time magazine. Time magazine promptly altered key frames,and eliminated others, in order to obstruct and eliminate key evidence of a conspiracy. Those home movies that were seized by the government that afternoon, were never seen or heard again. Regis Kennedy, one of the FBI agents who was gathering up those home movies that afternoon, was supenoed by the House select committee on assassinations, to explain what happened to all those home movies. On the very day he was to testify to that committee, he was found murdered. Over 200 key witnesses to JFK's assassination, who could have testified to the truth of what happened that day, have died under mysterious circumstances, or have been outright murdered.
THE THREE TRAMPS. RAOUL IN FRONT, STURGIS AND HUNT IN THE REAR
So exactly who shot JFK? The same hit men the CIA planned to use against Cuban president Fidel Castro, including the famous Watergate burglars E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis, were brought into Dealy plaza on November 22, 1963. Immediately after JFK's assassination, law enforcement officers conducted a search of the area behind the grassy knoll, from which many witnesses heard gunshots and saw smoke just after the shots rang out. There were several railroad boxcars in this area. Some of these witnesses saw men running from the fence behind the knoll toward the boxcars. As a result three men were found in one boxcar.

They were arrested. These men came to be known as "The three tramps". They were arrested right after the president of the United States was killed, but strangely enough the police did not book, photograph or fingerprint them, and they were released. One thing they didn't expect however, was that as the police led the three derelicts through Dealey Plaza to the sheriff's office, they were photographed by several press photographers. When allegations of a CIA connection with Kennedy's death emerged, these photographs received wide publicity in newspapers, television and in the April 28, 1975 issue of Newsweek magazine. Two of the derelicts or "tramps", as they had come to be called, bore striking resemblances to Nixon burglars E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis respectively, who both worked for the CIA. The 3rd tramp is often referred to as "Raoul", and is a bullseye for the Martin Luther King assassination suspect circulated by the police after King was killed. James Earl Ray would later claim he was set up by a man named "Raoul".
STURGIS AS TRAMP IN 1963, AND AS NIXON BURGLAR IN 1973
HUNT AS TRAMP IN 1963, AND AS NIXON BURGLAR IN 1973
A book titled Coup D'Etat in America, by Alan J. Weberman and Michael Canfield, came out with compelling evidence that two of the three "tramps" arrested in Dallas on November 22 were E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis. When Coup D'Etat in America came out, Hunt sued for millions of dollars in damages, claiming he could prove that he had been in Washington D.C. that day, on duty at CIA. It turned out, however, that this was not true. So, he said that he had been on leave and doing household errands, including a shopping trip to a grocery store in Chinatown. Weberman and Canfield investigated the new alibi and found that the grocery store where Hunt claimed to be shopping never existed. At this point, Hunt offered to drop his suit for a token payment of one dollar.

But the authors were determined to vindicate themselves, and they continued to attack Hunt's alibi, ultimately completely shattering it. Using the principles of Biometrics, lines and angles are measured and compared to create a template. The templates are then overlaid for matching. When the pictures of two of the derilicts were tested biometrically against Frank Sturgis and E. Howard Hunt, they came up as 100% perfect matches. It would seem beyond a shadow of doubt that both Hunt and Sturgis worked for the CIA not only as Nixon burglars, but also as part of the team the CIA sent out to assassinate JFK.

Assassinating Kennedy, and putting their man Johnson into the presidency helped the military industrial complex and the shadow government reassert their power, and that will help you understand what's been going on in America ever since Kennedy's assassination. These treasonous murderers are opposed to everything the United States is supposed to represent, such as truth, freedom and justice. This is why they go to such great lengths to keep their methods of operation, their true purpose, and even their existence, under a cloak of secrecy. If Americans knew the truth about all of this, they would rise up in anger, and hold them all accountable. As long as these forces remain in control of the government, the coverup will continue.

The truth behind the JFK assassination will never be told by the establishment. You and I are subject to their corrupt and injust court system, while they are above the law. International bankers and all of their branch organizations are at the head of this shadow government, and the assassination of president Kennedy was nothing short of a coup, implemented by them. Their pawns in the media keep the American people from learning how their government has been overthrown by them, and they have been, more or less, in complete control of the U.S. government ever since they assassinated JFK on November 22, 1963.



This is as close to reality as it gets! JFK was the unknowing victim of a coup d'�tat .

They also "found" a picture of him holding the Carcano rifle, right? Do you suppose a CIA operative would hold onto a revolver that he just used to kill a cop?

Maybe. I don't know what an escaping murderer would have been thinking. But if he was willing to murder a cop, then it's safe to infer that he'd be willing to murder another, which would mean he would have needed his gun.

Cops are just like most folks, they believe what they are told by their superiors if they want to keep their jobs and they were told Oswald was the murderer. Why would they think somebody else killed their brother officer if their superiors told them that Oswald did? They thought they had the guy. Your assertion doesn't make sense.

My purpose was to call into question the notion that Oswald actually had anything to do with killing the cop. He may have also done so under the scenario outlined by Ethan Edwards, but none of us know anything about that, since he was never brought to trial and the evidence is shaky.

True, a student of Human Nature, Natural Law, and History would indeed be open to the likelihood of conspiracies. They are a fact of life.

The problem is that you're not a very good student of history. As history has laid out the facts about this event, over and over and over again. Each time the conclusion is clear, Oswald acted alone.

Since the facts are dismissed, you are left with a theory. Thus, you are in fact a conspiracy theorist, when it comes to this topic. In fairness, I will isolate this topic from others, and apply the title "conspiracy theorist" to where it fits.

So just because a large percentage of our "well informed" citizens think it was a conspiracy (you know the same who keep electing democraps among other boneheaded stunts) I'm supposed to lend credence to that? The House Commission's report had only access to technology available at the time and also and "possibly" is far from certain. Further, considering new technology, the "fourth shot" theory has been discredited. Also, I've also stated many times my issues with the Warren Commission's findings. Lastly and I do mean lastly, the only possible opening I see for a "conspiracy" is the Ruby/Oswald connection.

Regarding the "your government" query, "your" is the reason for my question as opposed to "our."

It doesn't make sense to you because it doesn't comport with what you want to believe is true. I do not know if a supervisor was even on scene when Oswald was arrested. And there is no way in hell I will believe any cop, regardless of rank, is going to facilitate the escape of a murderer of a brother officer. That is stuff of fallacy and fantasy. It just wouldn't have nor will it ever happen. Period. End of story.

Moreover, your thesis doesn't make sense because if a Dallas supervisor facilitated the escape of a murderer of one of his brother officers, it would mean that that supervisor was in on the conspiracy. That I do not believe.

.feel very comfortable saying "[bleep] the Commander in Chief".

When you speak of policemen, you come across as naive to the point of being childlike. Have you seen the movie, based on the real story, Serpico? Police corruption is, and always has been, extremely common. In Serpico, his corrupt partners arranged for him to be killed by a drug dealer.

TRH,

You can allege I am naive, but to believe what you want me to believe would mean that Dallas PD was in on the conspiracy. That I do not believe.

Here is what I do know is factual: there is an inverse correlation between number of conspirators and ability conceal a conspiracy. The more people who know what happened the less secure the secret.

You gotta get beyond Serpico. It was a film with elaborate use of artistic license. To extrapolate from a single movie pandemic corruption is, well, naive.

TRH,

You can allege I am naive, but to believe what you want me to believe would mean that Dallas PD was in on the conspiracy. That I do not believe.

Here is what I do know is factual: there is an inverse correlation between number of conspirators and ability conceal a conspiracy. The more people who know what happened the less secure the secret.

You gotta get beyond Serpico. It was a film with elaborate use of artistic license. To extrapolate from a single movie pandemic corruption is, well, naive.

Ethan Edwards mentioned "compartmentalization." That's an important concept that you seem to be missing. The entire force doesn't need to be in on anything. One or two high level guys need to be only. All the rest, but perhaps one or two, are following orders to get the bad guy.I'm afraid you're mistaken. The man is still alive and well today, and occasionally does interviews. He says that, if anything, the movie understated the extent of the corruption in the NYPD.

The DPD could have been in on it. You don't have to believe that to justify their treatment of Oswald and the Tippet portion of the case though. Also, for the DPD to be involved there would only have to be a couple of guys and not the whole department. If they weren't involved, all the beat cops had to do was think they had the right guy. That was what everybody was told. What is difficult to believe about that?

Dude, I think it was Crossfire who said something about "debating from a position of ignorance" on this very thread. If you want to debate from a position other than one of ignorance you have to educate yourself on the subject matter. I mean no offense by this but when you have obviously read nothing but stuff that parrots the initial party-line, made up your mind and then dismissed a whole body of work that has emerged post-Warren Commission, then what you're doing is akin to talking about Reagan's two terms in office while only knowing about his election and maybe first year as President.

The only problem I have with the idea is that Oswald, if he indeed was the shooter, passed up a much easier shot moments before when the car was coming directly at him.
Why wait for a left to right, down hill and curving away.
For me that the hardest kind of shot to make.

Interesting theory. Now where are the facts to support that LBJ killed JFK?

Show me the facts not the theories.

Kirk. Captain James Kirk.

Interesting theory. Now where are the facts to support that LBJ killed JFK?

Show me the facts not the theories.

I wish I could HAJ...I am FIRMLY convinced LBJ was the priciple on this, but like everyone else all I have is gut feelings and heresay evidence...

I've been there amigo. It's not so much what I believe or believed, but where the actual facts take me.

The actual facts all lead to Oswald.

Trust me, I'd be thrilled and would jump up and exclaim "I KNEW THAT RAT BASTARD WAS BEHIND THAT!" if I could find the facts to support it. Sadly, they just don't exist...

So, I'm left following Joe Friday...

HugAJAckass,

Circumstantial evidence is factual. Many convicts were convicted and sentenced to death based solely upon circumstantial evidence.

Don't pop my bubble now, Ive been clinging desperately to the theory for years...

I don't know, but I swear I saw Elvis once...

I saw Bigoot just this morning...he was in the shower...

I saw Bigoot just this morning...he was in the shower...

I realize some of y'all absolutely hate TRH, because of his beliefs. Like most folks, some of his stuff is probably true and some of it probably ain't, but some of you should bear in mind that to quote uh...some of y'all, you're painting with a mighty broad brush in several respects when you set out to diss him just because he's him. Get it? Or not...

The bottom line where I am concerned is what I stated earlier in the thread, nobody is going to know this side of Heaven, what actually happened. The evidence has been tampered with, the facts clouded...etc. I have no desire to go, "blow for blow" or whatever you said about the case. IMO as soon as somebody uncovers something the government pays ten experts to disprove it. How do people working on their own hook and at their own expense compete with those who use our own money against us, extracted at their will in the form of taxes? You are talking two finite resources, one much larger than the other, so much so that the latter may as well be infinite. It is much like the birther issue, if there wasn't something to cover up, then why all the fuss and bother?

Nobody will ever know, but to call people "kooks" because they disbelieve the party line is patently stupid. I realize some of y'all absolutely hate TRH, because of his beliefs. Like most folks, some of his stuff is probably true and some of it probably ain't, but some of you should bear in mind that to quote uh...some of y'all, you're painting with a mighty broad brush in several respects when you set out to diss him just because he's him. Get it? Or not...

As an aside, let me ask you this. Where was your first experience as far as this assassination is concerned? I mean, besides what you learned in school, in all probability to summarize not entirely accurately, the Warren Report...other than that scenario, where did you first get alternative information that you would use or base your arguments on?

What would you suppose Serpico would say? And how the hell would he know what goes on in every law enforcement agency throughout the country?

Let's assume that a few cops within Dallas PD were in on the conspiracy, and to further the conspiracy they issued orders that other cops knew would have facilitated the escape of a murderer of one of their brother officers. How long would you suppose cops within Dallas PD would have kept that silent?

JFK was shot from a 6th floor window of the Texas School Book
Depository in Dallas, Texas by Lee Harvey Oswald at 12:30 pm Central Standard Time on November 22, 1963.

Hmmm, interesting, and very possible. The nuns at my grammar school back then told us the popular cinnamon toothpics were a communist plot. I think that's how the commies got to us, it was something the Ruskies concotted and put on the toothpics. I think it's wearing off, as I've gotten older I'm getting less progressive... it's either that or becoming a rifle (and pistol) loonie has had some curative effect. I better buy another gun.

O.... M..... G........
I honestly thought the title of this thread was a joke.
I'm not going to read all 17 pages of this so sorry if it's been asked but... TRH can you name one single remotely popular conspiracy that you do NOT subscribe to?

One note on the human condition, nothing in life is conclusive with the exception of death, that is conclusive every time.

Raisuli,

I have no doubt that Oswald killed Tippit, but if you like, I could easily dismantle your statement to show how the conspiracy theorist would dismiss the entire thing...

What too often happens with events surrounding JFK's death are suggestions and theories thrown in and substituted as facts without anyone really taking the evidence where it leads. People really should just let the evidence (and I'm not talking the Governments evidence) speak for itself...

Circumstantial by definition is not factual. It's logical, but not factual.

You have to recall that many convicts that were sentenced to death based solely upon circumstantial evidence were later found to be completely innocent.

The logic pointed to them, the facts found them to be not guilty.

Why do you do these things to yourself?

The view Oswald had for the second shot, the first one to hit Kennedy. The third shot happened after the car cleared the tree...

Oswald had a clear, easy to make shot...


CORRECTION: This was the first missed shot. The next one came 4.8 seconds later, after the limo cleared the tree...

Point remains, Oswald had a clear, easy to make shot with no obstructions...

I wish I could HAJ...I am FIRMLY convinced LBJ was the priciple on this, but like everyone else all I have is gut feelings and heresay evidence...

Exactamundo...

TRH, Do you think Caroline was lying when she tould us her mother said LBJ was the person behind the death of the father she grew up without. Her dying mother wanted her to know why she grew up without a father. Not a small admission.

To believe other than what the Warren Report says, a person would have to believe that our government was not only capable of lying to us, but would actually do so.

She was in the group that didn't have to discover the truth.

She was in the group that didn't have to discover the truth.

Oswald was a fair shot at best....no way he was the only gunman.

Go on.

The problem with that theory is that there were thousands of people in the area of JFK's motorcade. Had there been a grassy knoll shooter, witnesses would have been running to Dallas cops with that info.

My opinion is Oswald was the only shooter. He was certainly a patsy and probably was assured he was going get out alive. But his murder was a done deal the second he agreed to becoming a lackey. He knew too much to be left alive. He just wasn't smart enough to figure it out. Unless, of course, he was willing to trade his life for something he considered more valuable...

Who knows? Maybe I'm wrong.

I heard at some point that a potential shooter was in the storm drain....now that was a stretch but who the hell knows. In the end, the shooter(s) were just a tool....the designers behind it are the real sham!

As I said earlier....the end of innocence for America. Nothing would ever be the same or as it appears again. It matters not, I guess, who pulled the trigger and how many shooters. What matters is the fact that this was NOT a lone nut job like Hinckley. This was a well orchestrated plan with more twists and turns by design than one can imagine.

Isn't it strange that presidential elections don't focus on now stupid the dimocraps are for placing Lesbo atheists on the supreme court. The debates are always limited to the differences between only the candidates. There is nothing about the libturd dimocraps being responsible for having God kicked out of school. there is nothing about how the election of Zero will result in the loss of the second, or $6 gas. There is nothing about how stupid Pelosi is or how Reid became a multi millionaire from being a good lawyer for two years before becoming a govt servant.

I agree. It's made all the worse by phony/altered photos & film that were probably distorted by the guilty knowing that they could be proved phony/altered. That way the guilty could cite the phony/altered photos & film as proof that only whack jobs (and here they'd be referring to me) believe Kennedy's murder was a conspiracy.

There are a million "experts" on youtube looking for their 15 minutes of fame, and they're playing right into the hands of those having most to protect.

Excellent observation.

So, jorge, you actually are happy they were murdered?

Who else do you have on your hit list?

jorge has a good shot or three of fascism in all his thinking. But then that goes for a lot of folks around here.

I don't read signature lines. Turned them all off. I'm sure yours is nuts too.

Yup. You made my case, thanks.

jorge has a good shot or three of fascism in all his thinking. But then that goes for a lot of folks around here.

I don't read signature lines. Turned them all off. I'm sure yours is nuts too.

Of course George Washington and Dwight D. Eisenhower tend to contradict the principle.

Taken to task by two "Educators" and you know what they say about them; "those who can't, teach." And incidentally, my flouride-free kook, that test you put out a few months back on where one stands philosophically and politically, I practically pegged Libertarian.

Could have been one of your kook buddies for sure, then again, you're all the same to me...

Nope it was one that one of you kooks put out. The square with the grid superimposed on it. Pretty solidly in the Libertarian quadrant, which further illustrates how [bleep] clueless you kooks are.

Nope it was one that one of you kooks put out. The square with the grid superimposed on it. Pretty solidly in the Libertarian quadrant, which further illustrates how [bleep] clueless you kooks are.

You mean was I happy a degenerate rapist that among other things, sold us out to the Soviets as a result of his mishandling of the Cuban missile crisis who in turn with his brother left 2500 Anti-communist Cubans to die on the Beaches of the Bay Of Pigs, offed Marylin Monroe and had his brother not been capped in 68 would have led this nation into further socialism, not to mention give up more crap to the Soviets? I could go on but the short answer is yes. Then again I can imagine how you must have adored the Kennedys and the pox upon the country they represented. Oh I forgot about Teddy, but that one's just too easy...

They didn't hire me because I was smart: they hired me because I was cheap.

Let me clarify. I too believe it was a conspiracy, but that only one shooter was involved.

The vid I posted shows in detail how the 'magic bullet' did its damage. The computer animation is the only part of the vid I agree with.

Whether or not Oswald was a complete patsy or an integral part of the conspiracy is in question for me.

I believe there was only one shooter and he was in the SBD.

I was young back then and a JFK supporter. But looking back at history and in retrospect JFK was pulling the [bleep] back then the turds are still trying to pull today. Someone did us a favor.

And you're still susceptible to political dupage, which is proved by your blind support for Romination.

No my undying belief Oberry needs to be defeated. People with a brain know that like it or not Romney is our only option. But say keep spreading the BS you're a laugh a minute.

Hi bigsqueeze,

My biggest concern is the authenticity of anything found on youtube. In essence, anyone can modify a film & post it on youtube as authentic.

The best source of Kennedy's autopsy would be primary source documents of the county pathologist that performed it. It would have been highly unlikely that he knew whether Oswald acted alone, especially considering that autopsy was performed almost immediately after death was pronounced. His primary concern would have been cause of death. Any autopsy after the initial one I would view with suspicion.

So if you can get your hands on Kennedy's pathologist's primary source documents, they would be definitive, assuming they haven't been altered.

I hope this helps.


Take care,

R

Listen Here

Hey TRH - Did Aaron Burr really kill Alexander Hamilton and
who gives a [bleep].

Watch the Zapruder film, but very slowly or look at it frame by frame. Both men clearly reacted to the same shot, so no �magic� bullet, plus look at the angle that Connolly is sitting at the first shot; that easily accounts for all of his wounds with shot one. As for the kill shot, it CLEARLY came from above and behind. If you actually open up the Warren Commission report (I don�t recall which volume), there is a frame for frame of the entire Zapruder film. There are 3 frames (somewhere in the low 300�s IIRC) that show the �gore� of the head wound and all of the blood is expanding out FROM his forehead, not behind it. Blood spatter on the vehicle is like 90% forward, and a little went backward by prevailing wind to the back of the car, and the windscreen of the motorcycle following.

hatari,

How do you KNOW Oswald acted alone?


Thx,

R

The Grand Ayatollah told me.

Look, since this was before you were born, let me help you out. Assassination of our President is serious schitt. Love them or not, we don't shoot them. When this happened, everybody wanted to know WTF happened. The Warren Commission was very thorough. You can never satisfy everybody and details can be interpreted and twisted to fit your own personal theory.

If LBJ did it, the GOP would have been on him. If the Mob did it, then there would have been a bigger war on Carlo Gambino et. al. than on Ho Chi Mihn. Castro didn't do it or we would have invaded Cuba and the USSR would not have lifted a finger to help them.

How do I know Oswald acted alone, because the most thorough crime investigation in the history of man says so.

Sounds like you've got yourself thoroughly convinced.

... Using reason, if there had been a grassy knoll shooter, doesn't one think that witnesses would have seen and heard the shot(s), and run to Dallas cops? ...

Of course George Washington and Dwight D. Eisenhower tend to contradict the principle.

Isn't George Washington the fellow who put down the Whiskey Rebellion, imposed stiff taxes and penalties for distilling liquor and then became the largest distillery owner in the USA?

No hero is perfect, which is why limited government is a vital ingredient in Liberty!

Washington wasn't an intellectual giant, and looked up to Hamilton intellectually. Sort of the way SteveNo and Bob look up to me.

Heh, God Almighty!

Yes. Shot from the grassy knowll. Don't ask how I know.

XXXXX

You like that?

Hi bigsqueeze,

My biggest concern is the authenticity of anything found on youtube. In essence, anyone can modify a film & post it on youtube as authentic.

The best source of Kennedy's autopsy would be primary source documents of the county pathologist that performed it. It would have been highly unlikely that he knew whether Oswald acted alone, especially considering that autopsy was performed almost immediately after death was pronounced. His primary concern would have been cause of death. Any autopsy after the initial one I would view with suspicion.

So if you can get your hands on Kennedy's pathologist's primary source documents, they would be definitive, assuming they haven't been altered.

I hope this helps.


Take care,

R

You like that?

Bob and Steve won't but it's one of your best. It's even tempting to PM Bob and see what he says. lol

I'm not an instigator like Evil Twin though. Nope, I'm not.

Bob and Steve won't but it's one of your best. It's even tempting to PM Bob and see what he says. lol

I'm not an instigator like Evil Twin though. Nope, I'm not.

Everybody loves conspiracies. Conjecture is more sporting than reality.

BTW,

I've learned that the county coroner was denied custody of Kennedy's body for autopsy in violation of law. That alone is extremely suspicious. Why was law intentionally violated, probably under threat of violence?

Because it was the President of the United States. Kennedy got a bullet in the head. No mystery there. They were not going to leave the body of the President lying around in the county morgue. Jeez.

You're reply implicates that we're a nation of men, that law is immaterial.

At the time of JFK's murder, there was no federal law proscribing the murder of a president. Therefore, the investigation of JFK's murder was solely the jurisdiction of Dallas PD.

hatari,

Can you think of a single war we weren't propagandized into, with the exceptions of the Revolutionary War & the War of 1812? If we were propagandized into wars, does that not, by logical extrapolation, implicate conspiracy?

If we have fought wars arising from conspiracies, why would you suppose JFK's murder did not involve principals who've aided and abetted Oswald? How would you explain Bob Jackson, who snapped the photograph of Oswald apparently wincing in pain after being shot, saying he never saw a droplet of blood? How would you explain how Ruby, a known felon, knew the precise time Oswald would emerge from behind a secure door -cops were late transporting Oswald to court, which would only have been known by cops and FBI agents- into an extremely secure basement and, while escorted between two cops, waltz up and shoot him? Ruby arrived at Dallas PD at the precise time, parked his car, and walked right into the basement where he was able to shoot Oswald.

Do you really believe the plethora of compelling circumstantial evidence that meshed perfectly at precise times were merely coincidences, the probability of which being unfathomable?

Dude, go with the Warren Commission. They were thorough.

[quote=hatari]Dude, go with the Warren Commission. They were thorough.

STILL GOT THE SHOVEL!

LMAO! everytime I see something on JFK assassination, I think of this. I've always wanted to put in my signature line: "I know who was on the grassy knoll" but then I'd prolly come up mysteriously missing....

HATARI - " ... As I said above, Ruby hung around the station brown nosing the cops for years. He was a well known figure around there and made friends. All well documented."