Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Bill Jordan on the .22 Magnum

I've been carrying a S&W 351PD 7-shot .22 Magnum for some time now due to arthritis in my hands. There are various opinions regarding the .22 Magnum for a carry cartridge. Here is another one from "NO SECOND PLACE WINNER" by Bill Jordan. The book was published in 1965. I got mine in 1978. Mr. Jordan cam to a police seminar and I ended up with a signed copy.

Page 77: Caption under a photo: "S&W Chief Special Airweight, .38 Spl. caliber. This is a fine hideout gun due to its fire power, small size and neglible weight. Would be ideal in .22 RFM caliber"

In the text on the same page: "The one light loading that I would like to see in would be the airweight model Cobras and Chief Specials chambered for the new .22 RF Magnum load. This is a wicked little cartridge . . . . . ."

If you haven't read this book, you might be surprised how up to date the 47 year old book is.

No Second Place Winner is an outstanding book.

I had forgotten Jordan's endorsement of the 22 Mag as a "hideout" gun chambering. I'm not sure I entirely agree, as there are other, more powerful cartridges for the J-frame that are easily controllable and have far better terminal effect.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't love to own a J-frame in 22 WMR, though!

Ballistician Alan Jones is quite a fan of the 22WMR round as well. The varmints I have hit with my PMR30 look about the same as the ones hit by my 222. NAsty, messy wounds.

Doc -

One feature of the 351PD that I like is the 7-shot cylinder. And with my not so young eyes the FO front sight takes my trifocals out of the equation.

Safari -

I've been getting good penetration with the new Hornady 45 grain JHP ammo. While shooting through a 2 X 6 I got nice little .22 sized holes going in and quarter sized exit wounds.

Norm it is good to see you here. One thing to remember is that Col. Cooper used to say that the 45 ACP would stop a man 9 times out of 10. I think that has been disproven. If all I've got is the 22 Mag or even the Short, that's what I'm using. Otherwise I want at least a 32 ACP in the best load available and a 380 is much better and a 38 Spec. is much better than that.

that is the ammo I have for mine as well. I have been stockpiling as a matter of fact. I chronographed it from my PMR30 and while normal 22WMR ammo barely got to 22LR speeds (from a rifle) of about 1150 the heavier 45gr Hornday load hit nearly 1300fps. 1275 IIRC and with a modern well constructed plastic tipped bullet.

I have a CT lazer for this pistola and if I am gone overnight this gun is by my wifes nightstand. 31 rounds of this with a lazer combined with two large and one small dog in the house give me a good feeling about her safety in my absence. Her 1/2 Coyote dog would ABOLUTELY engage an intruder and start the bloodletting. I think Goober the Lab/GSR mix would join in as well as he kind of feeds off of Gracies moods and energy. Then, 31 rounds on tap of this stuff guided by the Lazer....

Folks sell far too short the power and mess a 22WMR makes.

I have read two treatises on what stops a bad guy in an intrusion. the two biggies are fear and pain. The loud report, flames form the muzzle and nasty wounds made by a 22WMR would provide some of both in good doses.

Paco Kelly in his book "Rifles and Handguns an American Freedom". In it he related the following story. Bottom of Page 51:

"At one time when this Nations Federal drug control agency was the Bureau of Narcotics in the Department of Treasury, I was with it in the 1960s in New York City. It was common when we went undercover to make drug buys, to carry a two shot High Standard 22 RF magnum derringer, as a back up gun. In those days it was Winchester ammo or nothing. We had been instructed at the time by several medical pathologists that did tests with the little guns and ammo for the Agency before it would let us carry them. If we had to fire on another human, they said to shoot for the lower intestine. Of the three shootings we had by Agents using the High Standards... all three criminals were hit at actoss the room distances or closer and all three in the intestines. All three went down from the intense pain with one shot each."

Turn the page and fast forward a decade Paco relates another account:

"While stationed in Tucson Arizona in 1976, my partner and I responded to a shooting in a private home very close to the Air Force Base. The wife of an airman shot a home intruder who broke in while she and her infant baby were alone. She shot him with a Ruger Single Six with the 22 mag cylinder in it and CCI hollow point ammo. She hit him in the chest from about 10 feet many times, after warning him to leave... but he went after her. He then died there."

A bit further down after the autopsy, during the inquest, the damage visited on the deceased was reveled:

"The bullets broke and penetrated the floating ribs where they connect to the sternum going in, at an upward direction. She was in a sitting position when she fired. It ripped thru the side of the heart, thru the inside, side of the right lung, and lodged in a back rib. The other five exited his back. The one found was expanded to 40 plus caliber and weighed 32 grains. It mushed that one side of the heart and put an inch radial channel thru the lung."

So it seems if you must use the .22mag, get close, and use hot hollow point ammo.

Norm...if you didn't see them the last few bullet tests I ran were with .22 Magnum from a 4" Diamondback. Two of the HPs failed to expand, the FMJs of course didn't expand but the CCI TNT HPs turned inside-out.

.22 Magnum is one of my favorite calibers. Carried a .22 Magnum High Standard Derringer clipped to my vest in a Bianchi #6 swede holster. The TNT Hps will make 1200 FPS from the short little barrel. Also have two NAA Mini-Revolvers that are very accurate...a Black Widow and MiniMaster....

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6727703/all/a_few_bullets_tests

BW at 5-10-25 yards...



MM at the same...



Bob

RGS -

Thanks for the post - very informative.

Norm

Bob - Good shootin' I have three .22 mag revolvers: 351PD, Black Widow and PUG. All three have good potential accuracy within reasonable range.

The NAA's (especially the PUG) took a bit of practice for me to shoot them well. The PUG with the smallest grips still allows for a good hold and the round white front sight in the V rear gives a good sight picture.

The Mini Master is high on my list of guns I "NEED"!

Thanks reposting the photos.

Norm

Hello
I have alway's been Intrigued with the Sharp crack and low recoil of the .22 W.M.R. Round. S&W got on board with it in 1959 when they released their K-Frame revolver being the model 48, and that was the first Year for the .22 W.M.R. Cartridge. The .22 Magnum Cartridge in the past has been Stomped into the ground by many in hand gun form that claim it is not that much more powerful than a standard .22 L.R. caliber. From what I have seen most that Shun the caliber in a hand gun are those not willing to spend the Extra charged for it when compared to a .22 LR round. I have a couple of S&W Revolver's chambered in it one being a Four screw example that left S&W in 1961 with a 4" Barrel, and the other being my Favorite a 1959 First Year four screw example that I have the Optional Factory fitted .22 LR cylinder both shown below. A couple of years ago, I was outside of a gun show when I spotted a nice Marlin Model 883 Stainless Bolt action Tube fed magazine rifle making it's way to the door. The seller said that he had bought it new and was looking to sell it so that he could replace it with a Marlin Bolt of .17HRM caliber. Needless to say, it never made the show and I got the original box, Paperwork and warranty card with it for $225.00. Here are my Three gun's chambered in .22 W.M.R. I really enjoy shooting it as it is super accurate and reaches out there much more than a standard .22 LR caliber gun. Regards, The General


S&W Model 48 Circa 1961





S&W Model 48 First Year, this gun shipped in December 1959, and was later sent back to S&W to have it's factory optional .22 L.R. Cylinder added to it.







Marlin Model 883 Stainless rifle

Some like the .22M, some don't. I fall in to the "don't" crowd especially in handguns. It's not a .38, heck it's not even on par with the .32's. Some folk need to stop pretending it is. If what you want is a NAA Mini then by all means stoke it with .22M's and carry in confidence. But Jordan's opinions aside, for any gun larger than that including 2 shot Derrigers I'll stand by my thoughts that "the best .22M is really a .38sp". That takes into account availability, cost and for anything from small game to defence.

I put more emphasis on the shooter than the cartridge/load combination. Mordechai Rachamim took down 3 Palestinian terrorist who were armed with full auto AK�s and hand grenades. Killed one, injured two and came out unscathed himself. He was carrying a Beretta Model 70 in .22lr�he was just one bad mo-fo!

I have the same pistol in .32 ACP and I carry it from time to time and to so with relative confidence. I can put a volley of rounds in the hurt spot in a very short period of time with that pistol.

.22 mag wouldn�t be my first choice, but if the shooter does his part, it can get the job done.

According to ballistician and gunwriter Alan Jones, the 22WMR makes the same hole in Ballistic Gelatin as a 380 or many 38 Special loads and his autopsies when he worked for a large metropolitan police agency in Texas also bore this out. So yes, it IS the equal of several loads that are larger caliber because of the very high velocity with which it hits. Possibly because of the higher probability of accurate hits by the shooter as well as per the report of the lady who shot her intruder and hit him well with all six rounds killing him very quickly and really bad trauma to his body from each hit.

I have great confidence that the PMR 30, with its capability to put THIRTY ONE rounds of 45gr Hornady Critical Defense HP's which chronograph almost 1300fps into an intruder in only a few seconds - especially with its lazer sight and low recoil - will settle matters right quickly should my wife ever need to put it to action in a home burglary or invasion scenario. If I am home, said intruder will get 9 180gr Gold Dots from a 10mm, also lazer equipped. All while said perp is being chewed upon by our three dogs. OOPS,wrong damn house!

General Stuart, those are some VERY fine 22WMR pieces there! Thank you for sharing the photos, they are handguns to be very proud of. I also have a Marlin Rifle in 22WMR and it is a very deadly rodent eradicator out to 100 yards or a bit more.

Heck, I have great confidence in about any gun to stop a fight the .22M included. Of coarse I don't use bogus one stop shot figures in my thought process but instead realize that most folk, including most bad guys, don't want to be shot at let alone shot with any gun. Just doesn't take much to end "many" fights (not to be confused with all). Now you brought up a comparison to the .380 and that's fine. But should those results be taken as a plus for the .22M or as a negative for the .380? Me thinks the later.

You go and compare the little rimfire to other revolver rounds like the .38sp and in equal sized platforms the .22m doesn't even compare. Well designed, bigger bullets at compariable velocities just don't lose to much smaller bullets. You have a PMR 30 and like it. Personally I don't think that's a bad choice for 30 rounds does count for something. But if you want to compare apples to apples such as S&W 6 shot revolver to S&W 6 shot revolver the .22M falls flat compared to the .38sp.