Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Custom Rifles

I am at the beggining stages of a desire for a custom rifle. Personally this type thing takes a little while to fully develope in to a purchase because I can't afford to just go do it and think about it later and then change it if I don't like it. Meaning atleast in this stage of life it will be a one time deal, but I hope that life situation changes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Caliber: if and when I do it, it will be someting that I consider an all around caliber like .338WinMag, or maybe a .300WSM. I have waivered on that or a classic in .270Win. or 30-06.

So, without really debating caliber I'd like to hear from those who have bought, built, or had built custom guns and their thoughts on them.

Best base action? Rem700, Win Mod70, Mauser, or "home-made" and custom machined version of one of those? Or a rolling block single shot would really interest me too.

Let me tell you my ultimate desire, though it may or may not be attainable. I would like a functional tool, that is pleasing to the eye but not so pleasingly detailed that I'd be afraid to take it to the woods, and I want premium accuracy from most any load I feed it.

I am interested in the gun first being a primary hunting gun, so really fancy engraving and wood work is not a primary goal, but I do want a wood gun with some nice work and not a synthetic stocked gun. But, if I was told I had to choose in order to get functionality and accuracy over looks, Id go synthetic rather than for looks if advised to.

Do you get the accuracy from these that I see advertised with a guarentee?

Are these that I see marketing to the public in magazines good custom guns? How do I find out which ones are and are not?

Based on my "money IS an issue" posture at this point...how much can I get a good specimine for? I know thats like asking a car dealer, "how much does a car cost?". But the question is really how little can I get a decent quality job for? The best price/return on investment ratio, not just the cheapest? If that makes sense. Or convince me why I need o pay a little more and what that is.

Thanks in advance to anybody that provides info.

280 Rem,

"Grasshopper" - You ask a difficult question that only you know the true answer.

If you have an action that you like whether it be a Rem, Win, Mauser or whatever, each can be made into a great, accurate rifle. Many folks will look for a donor action on some beat up rifle (the action will be reblued anyway), for $200-250. Then you must get a quality barrel, again if you stay with the quality names (Lilja, Hart, Shilen, etc) and you have a gunsmith who has a reputation for building accurate rifles your chances of having an accurate rifle are enhanced. barrel installed on your action $500. $100 rebuled, I personally like matte finish and with some smiths it can be a lttle less cost because they don't have to spend hours polishing out low spots.

Stocking the rifle is a personal thing again. On my favorite rifle, I did the stock work myself and it fits me great. So I bought a $100 semi-drop in from Richards microfit and did the rest myself. Or else you can go nuts and have a fine stock maker build a stock for you where you can spend a lot more. So much is what you are after and how much is it worth to you.

This is a picture of my 35 Whelen. It was built in 1988 and it has become my go to rifle even though I have many in the cabinet.

Its built on a 1903 Springfield action, with a Shilen barrel cut to 22". Its not the prettiest rifle in the world but I have tone of confidence in it and someday I may even get it checkered. But it is my example of a custom all-around rifle.

Good Luck,
BigBullet

Call, McWorter, Jarrett, Bansner, Sisk, Carolina Precision, Hart, Hill Country, Rifles Inc, or any of several other custom rifle builders. Use their expierence and expertice in building it for you. It will be done right the first time and you'll have a lifetime custom. 163bc

IMHO use either the Rem or Winch actions for the calibers you're looking at. A .338 is a bit steep for an all-around rifle but it will work. Personally, I would choose something in .30 caliber other than the WSM.. A lot of this is going to depend on what game you're going after.

The barrel is going to dictate well over 90% of the accuracy, the rest is just tweaking. Get a good barrel and you'll have the accuracy you are seeking. A decent custom walnut stock can easily run you nearly $1,000.00 after fitting. Note I said 'decent', not exhibition.. Consider some of the laminates. They can look wonderful and be very functional while keeping the cost down. Plus, they usually don't 'wander' and cause accuracy or POI shifts. You're like me; if it's synthetic, I don't want it. Yes, yes, I know; outlandish weather/hunting conditions will make a good argument for plastic. I'll still pass.

IF you have the action, you can get by for around $1500 w/wood stock, plus checkering costs. Figure on another 3-500 if you don't have the action. Caliber of your choice..

So much of this cost will depend on exactly what you want to end up with.

Rem 700 action, Jewell Trigger, barrel maker of your choice, I have used several and quality has been excellent on the barrels. For a wood stock, I would consider a Serengetti(sp) think that is the company that makes a laminate with three panels with figure as expensive as you can take. There are a couple of other wood stocks available for a reasonable price but their names aren't coming forth from the gray matter.
Accuracy guarantees may pertain to selected loads. There are few rifles that will shoot any load into say 1/2 MOA but there are rifles that shoot most loads well and some will be exceptional. Some smiths will only put an accuracy guarantee if they select the parts. Can't blame them for that at all. Stops Billy Bob from bring in a variety of used parts an expect a benchrest rifle.
For the gunsmith, I would select someone that is within driving range of your home so that you could have an eyeball contact with him. Or search this site and read about what others have said. There are several smiths that post on this site. Talk to as many as you can and respect their imput but don't let them talk you out of your basic rifle. The smiths I have dealt with usually have a barrel maker they prefer and I have used their recommendation on all but two customs.
The final price will have to do with what parts you use. Do you have a donor action? A stock for that action that will meet your requirements? Instead of a $225 Jewell trigger you could get a Timney or Shilen for less than $100 of your smith can do a trigger job on the existing action for less. Barrel should cost $350-500. Saw a laminated Rem 700 stock in a local pawn shop for $65, hit the gun shows and look for a take off stock for whatever action you plan to use. You should expect to pay $1500 as a minium and the top will be as much as you want to throw at the job. There are a few smiths that will do accuracy work on a factory rifle. Recut the crown, lap the bolts, bed the action, etc. I have seen some of those shoot as well as most customs. Hard to give a final price when we don't know exactly what you want.Rick.

The not as expensive route to a nice custom rifle: Zastava Mauser action from Numrich, $200; fancy walnut stock from Elk Ridge (only place that makes one to fit the Zastava... same as Charles Daly), $200; Pac-Nor pre-fit barrel, $300. Trigger on the Zastava is pretty good already, no fussing with fixing the safety, etc.

With that action, you'll probably not want to do a magnum.

That will get you a nice, accurate custom rifle that doesn't cost too much more than just buying a finished rifle.

From what you asked here's what I would do, many might not agree, but hey it's just another thought:

1. Buy a commercial Mauser action: FN, MarkX, Santa Barbara with the bolt face that will fit the cartridge you decide on. IMHO a 30-06 would do just fine-price about $200 to $250. I would opt for the Mark X as the magazine length is closer to 3.400", Santa Barbara are shorter and won't allow much room to increase the OAL (if you reload that is).

2. I have had a couple of ER Shaw barrels and they have shot very well, many will scream that they are not worth a hoot, but they have an accuracy guarantee and will replace it if you are not satisfied. If you do that route, go with a 1, 1.5 or 2 contour. The commercial action is rather "heavy" compared to a Remmy-more like a Winchester. Barreled, bead blasted and blued runs about $285.00-chromemoly version.

3. Scrap the factory trigger and add a Timney. Price about $45.00

4. Add a three position safety, you can either have ER Shaw fit it or have another smith do it, should be about $50 to fit, safety is obviously more. Check Brownells. I bought a NECG and it is very nice, although expensive. You also might consider an Ed Lapour 3 position don't know the price but the safety will probably run from $150 to $185.

5. I would go with a Bansner. They are light and strong. If you are able to work on the stock yourself, you can sand out the mold lines, cut the stock and glue on a Decelerator to the desired LOP. Then bed the barreled action. The stock can be had for about $160 if you have a smith order it and sell it at cost.

6. Have Rick Bin paint it. About $100.

7. Talley LW rings. Cost (I think about $40.00)

Total cost I estimate would be $1100 to $1200 if you add the three position. If you don't you could probably get it under $1000 with some thoughtful shopping around.

The rifle should weigh about 8lbs depending on scope and barrel contour. I've done a couple like this. I've attached a pic of a standard Santa Barbara that I stocked and painted for a buddy with a Bansner. Weighs 8lbz 1oz as is with a 2x7 Redfield:

280REM I have done it three ways, 1. My Bestest Buddy Gunsmith (really is the Best Friend I have on the Planet) Made me a 7mm Remington Mag on a PFR Model 70 Long Action, 28" Shilen Select Match Barrel, McMillian Stock, 3x9 Swarovski ended up costing, $1024 + Scope=$1750+600 cost of Donor Rifle, this rifle shoots 150 Ballistic Tips Sub-MOA, but is a 1 MOA rifle with other bullets 2. VZ24 Mauser 25-06, MidwayUSA A&B Barrel, Reamer, Gauges, Bold Optima Trigger, Hogue Stock. I did the work, the barrel was prechambered, so all I had to do was worry the Chamber a little deeper to regulate the correct headspace, I drilled and tapped the action for a scope. The VZ 24 was $60.00, Reamer=$80.00, Gauges=$45, Trigger=$35, Stock=$80. I did all the work from the bolt rework to reworking the triggerguard and bottom metal, It has been cold blued. the rifle is a Sub-MOA rifle with any load I have tried, but it really likes 120 Sierra HPBT Gamekings. I'm into the rifle about $325 total + my time 3. 30-338 Win Mag. 1999 Montana Rifleman Action $425.00, McMillian Stock=$350(Internet Special at their website), Pac-Nor 30" Super Match 5-1/2 Contour Barrel=$245, Robar,Inc. Visit for NP-3 Coating and Barrel Engraving of Caliber and Moniker "Big Juan"=$325, 4.5-14 Zeiss Conquest SF=$669. Again I did all the fitup and chambering, bedding the stock. The rifle is magic, Sub-MOA on any load so far. Total into the rifle is $2014+ my time (as a side note 30" barrel was used to get the most out of the cartridge without hot rod loading, but it is really a PIA to carry very far, very muzzle heavy, but Gosh does it Shoot). I used this rifle on a Cow Elk Hunt in New Mexico last year, a very marked reaction to the bullet strike, 1/2 step forward, 2 two steps falling sideways, TUE=tits up Elk. For what its worth like stated earlier, you really want a Gunsmith close enough you can actually visit the shop, check progress, ask the hard questions and have trust in. A very hard combination to find in some areas. A man can't go wrong choosing the 30-06, it just gets'er done. The 270 is a good choice also, it really performs on anything I tried it on (8 Elk and a Buttload of Antelope and Deer). You may want to consider the 338-06, seems like a real performer without the recoil. I used one on a feral pig hunt, it was used to take one hog and a Corsican Ram, both about a 100 yards, Nosler 210 Partition @ 2650. The hog was a Bangflop, the Ram went about 30 yds before expiring. Good Luck, a Custom Rifle is always fun to do, they become an extension of yourself once you become familiar with them, kind of like you were born with it. Chet

Don't over look the quality of the fit of the stock for you. A good fitting stock or not can make or break any rifle, custom or not.

Sounds like you have been bit by "the disease". You have gotten a lot of good advice. You can do it for probaly $1500 to $2000.

I had a custom rifle built by a gunsmith in Georgia. He took an Interarms Mark X and turned it into a .300 H&H. It is now on it's second stock. Dennis Olson of Plains MT recently barrelled it for .375 H&H. This is what it looks like in it's latest incarnation.


I would have to say build yours on one of the Mausers. Boyd's or Richard's Microfit has stocks at a reasonable price. One outfit that you might want to consider is the Montana Rifleman. They can supply you a complete barrelled action at a fairly reasonable price. Here are some web sites for you to check out.

http://www.boydboys.com/

http://www.ershawbarrels.com/gunsmith.asp

http://www.montanarifleman.com/

http://www.rifle-stocks.com/

http://www.rimrockstocks.com/

http://www.burnsgunrepair.com/

Know what you�re going to do with it. A real understanding of what I needed in my first several custom rifles would have saved me thousands of dollars and a ton of wear and tear on my marriage. It helps to write it out, then review and study your notes while you save money. Once you know exactly how you�ll use it, your other questions get easier to answer.

Second, study custom rifles and pay what it costs to do it right the first time. This is important because you�ll lose around 50% of your investment if you get something you don�t want and have to sell it. Study as many custom rifles as you can get your hands on and talk with their owners. That will help you decide where to go and what to spend � just keep your BS detector very finely tuned, especially when it comes to accuracy.

Accuracy sells rifles to the unknowing and gives experts confidence. Just don�t let it fool you � no one can do in the field what he can from the bench. It takes years to learn how to shoot well off the bench, and most riflemakers are better at it than the rest of us. I�ll piss people off by saying it, but 2 MOA and proper shot placement will do for any big-game animal on Earth 99.9% of the time.

Third, synthetic stocks beat wood hands down, but I�d take a good wood stock over a bad synthetic any day. A dwindling number of masters build proper wood-stocked rifles, and you�ll PAY for them, both in money and time. That said, I live in the Pacific Northwest, where conditions are as bad as anywhere but Alaska. For many years, I only saw one hunter with a synthetic-stocked rifle: me. The locals ran rings around me, and they all used factory wood-stocked rifles, at least where I hunted. Go figure.

You�ll get a lot of good advice on this board, and most of it will contradict itself. Before you spend a dime, do a lot of searches and read a lot of threads. Pay very careful attention to who is saying what, and more importantly, why they�re saying it.

Good luck.


Okie John

You should read the articles Steve Tim published in The Varmint Hunter Magazine about building a custom rifle. He says it all better than anyone. I kept those close at hand when I planed my custom rifle and it turned out to be exactly what I wanted. I don't think I would have been as happy with out following the decission making process he explians so well.

280--
Some months ago, I started a thread on PMS--planning, mulling, and scheming--as a phase in building a custom gun. It seems like you have a bad case. Some random thoughts---

Like several people who have already responded, I have learned lessons over the years on custom guns, sometimes expensive lessons. I started toying with gun modifications because I am left handed, and wanted things other than the plain jane calibers that are offered by the factories.

I have never been able to afford a turnkey $3000 (and up) custom. I do a lot of my own stocking, and sometimes the projects evolve in stages. You can get an action rebarreled, and slap it in a fiberglass stock for $1200-1600, depending on how you go.

The first step is to figure out what you want that you can't get in a factory gun. More accuracy? Lighter weight? Obscure caliber? Prettier wood? Odd stock dimensions? Factory guns are agruably better today than they have ever been, and the functional gap between them and customs for general hunting purposes is pretty small.

Everything about gun design is about tradeoffs. Lightweight guns are harder to shoot, and recoil more. Accuracy guns are finicky about loads and not as "field durable". Heavy guns are, well, heavy. And so forth. You have to decide how to balance the tradeoffs.

Figure out the performance envelope you want, and then figure out how to get there. I have a 10# 7mm Rem Mag that is a half-minute gun, but I also have a 6# 284 that is more like a 1.5 minute gun. Why have both?--distinctly different performance envelopes.

A key to your design will be the action. Action preference is not just the enduring Ford v. Chevy brand preference. Consider a BR action (or similar) for an accuracy gun, a Remington for a varmint/accuracy gun, a Mauser if you are a traditionalist, a Winchester for a hands-down hunting reliable gun.

I would go with a light deer caliber for your first custom, because they are much more fun to shoot, and you will get more use out of the gun. A really nice 257 or 260, for instance.

Go with the gunsmith's preference for barrel maker. Then he is in your corner if it doesn't shoot well (he doesn't want to be proven wrong). If you use a barrel he doesn't like, and the gun doesn't shoot well, then he says "see, told ya" and the barrel is your problem.

But I find good stainless barrels to be so much easier to work with than factory barrels (esp. in term of cleaning) that I can't imagine spending much time on factory barrels again.

Spend time on gunsamerica.com looking at the custom guns people are selling. You can occasionally get them for 50-60% of having the same thing built for you. So it you are willing to accept a second hand rose, then that might get you in the game cheaper (and we know that if a second hand rose works out well, then you are in Paradise.)

Have fun, but don't shortchange the PMS phase--it is part of the fun.

Mine is a Shilen DGA 338. Bought the barreled action, sent to Mcmillen, all up about $1300. Worked up a load that consistently shoots 3/4 moa, absolutely HATES barnes x-bullets.

As to the 338, can be loaded up down very successfully. Loads for a family member launch 250 grainers at around 2100fps for fla whitetails, he loves it. This will probably start a firestorm or two, but NONE of the other cartridges that you mention will ever be loaded to do what the 338 will, but it can be brought down to their level, IMHO.

280, I started getting custom rifles built over 25 years ago, when I was just out of college and could barely afford to feed myself, let alone buy rifles. But I did it anyway!

Today, all I hunting with are custom rifles, but I gave up on wood a long time ago. A good synthetic stock out-performs wood in every way if your objective is to build a high-performance hunting rifle that you'll really use.

As to caliber, stick with standard factory chamberings. You'll find that the 30-06 is very tough to beat for all-around use, and it's an easy cartridge to shoot, plus it's good for everything from deer to moose.

And keep everything simple, but solid and of the highest quality. Either a Model 700 or Model 70 forms an ideal foundation, to which add a pillar-bedded McMillan stock and any good custom barrel such as Hart, Kreiger, Lilja, Pac-Nor, etc. Stay way from muzzle breaks, "tactical" stocks, 50mm scopes, and barrels longer than 24", as well as triggers that are lighter than 2.5 lbs.

Lots of guys only understand a cluster of holes on a piece of paper off the bench, but feeding and function, plus soild handing qualities, balance, and durability are just as important, and I've see a number of custom rifles that produced tight groups but didn't feed properly, etc. I call such rifles "accurate junk", and believe me, if a rifle doesn't feed right, it IS junk.

Never do business with a riflemaker who won't shoot, break-in the barrel, and prove his product in terms of accuracy, as well as feeding and function before he sends it out to you. If all he's trying to do is throw a rifle together to get it out the door ASAP, forget him.

AD

Are you the same AD that post on www.accuratereloading.com that talks about his custom D'Echol rifles.

Ditto

With some Smiths this is a waste of your time and the Smiths time. I only use SG&Y and every rifle they have ever built for me or anyone else that I know of "competition" or "hunting" shot lights out.

SG&Y

???

roper, yes I'm the same Allen Day who has posted about Echols rifles on AR, however, by choice I'm no longer a member of AR.

AD