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Good luck with your boy this weekend, tzone!

Hope you can get some shooting in!

Has he ever been there when you got a deer yet?

BIG JELLY!!!!!!!

No, I can't help I'm afraid. I'm not even exactly sure what you mean by dry (not lactating?) or freshened.

For the most part, the timing of breeding and rut activity is driven by day length which is invariant relative to weather conditions. Nonetheless, I know some species do make some small adjustments for breeding season as a function of the year's growing conditions and habitat quality, but it's usually pretty minor.

So, if deer are not moving for you, I don't know why. They certainly are moving well down here and right on schedule.

I don't know why there would not be a good sized herd up there either, but then I associate "normal" conditions in that part of the world with the state of the herds in the 60s and 70s. That was pretty much what you seem to be experiencing now. Certainly , it should be better than that, but with TB, Blue tongue, EDH, CWD, Wolved, Hunters, recent weather, etc. making any guesses about your herd from down here is a big shot in the dark.

No, he hasn't. He's only been deer hunting once so far. I was VERY proud of him (he's 7 and can't legally hunt), he sat with me in 9*F temps for 3 hours before he had enough. Frankly, so did I.

He has been along on a few trips when we popped a few grouse. His excitement level then tells me, if we get one...he'll be the talk of the 2nd grade. He has a hunting friendly teacher as well. My daughter had her for 2nd grade. She let me come and talk to the class about fishing/hunting safety and tactics for some of the Science lessons. I hope I get to do it again!

We're going to sit on some property a family friend owns and there is a decent chance of seeing a deer. We've been given the OK to shoot whatever deer we'd like, and I'm going to take that offer. I have kiddo's to feed and they like venni.

I'll have a blind set up (turkey hunting style) that we can have some freedom for movement(remember he's 7 ). I will hunt as long or as short as he wants to. He runs the show this weekend. My daughter is welcome to come as well, but so far has decided to hang with Grandma.

I've never wanted to shoot a deer so bad as I do this weekend. But, he knows the gig. It's not a gimme no matter where we go. He also knows he gets a bit spoiled when it's time to play in the woods. Wheelers, campfires, sweets, hot chocolate... I'll make it worth his time either way.

What he doesn't know is the little lessons he's learning along the way. Like "what makes that track? Which way is it going? Why do you think he went there. Let's find something to start a fire with. Do you remember how to get out? you lead the way".... stuff like that, that the little bugger hangs onto like a steel trap.

I don't know why we're not seeing them either. What I do know is that in the late 80's and early 90's, it was something to see a deer. Then in the mid 90's- a few years ago, they were everywhere. Seems to be running in a cycle. Preaditor realated? Maybe. Probably a factor of tags, preaditors, food availabilty..the normal factors.

I know one thing. I like hunting and spending time in the woods better than most anything else, deer or not.

tzone, I am hoping and pulling for you to get a deer this weekend...just to see a smile on that 7 year old's face!

I think it is amazing when they want to get out there...and you are right; it is up to him what happens this weekend. I have a friend who was told by his father to "sit down and shut up" while out deer hunting with him.

Needless to say, that friend has NEVER wanted to go deer hunting.

Brent, I was asking why we would be seeing more "dry" or non lactating deer then normal. Some of the guys have wondered if a lower than normal buck population may be the reason, to many does and not enough bucks.

It is just a guessing game as to what is going on. We were seeing all kinds of deer right before season then the weather changed and little to nothing being seen.

T, I took my youngest deer hunting at 8 and he took his first deer. Kids are restricted as to when they can hunt on their own and required firearms classes but I don't recall seeing any listed youth date. They would have have to hunt on your tag prior to age 10 when they can get their own tag but would still need to be within physical and verbal control of you until the safety class is completed.

Does that are not lactating at this time of year are the result of their not having fawns that need to nurse. Bucks won't have any effect on that. So, if you have a lot of does that lost their fawns or didn't breed in the first place, those does would be dry. Not breeding COULD be due to a shortage of bucks in the previous rut, BUT it would take a mighty big shortage. Excessively so. With mammals, one male goes a long ways to inseminating all the females and I have never heard of a mammal species whose population was limited by a shortage of males.

Down here, another reason does might be dry could be because they had a banner year and the youngster grew fast and quit suckling early, but I don't know if that is the case here or up there this year. I would guess this year is not that unusual in this respect. The super early spring got females into excellent condition very early on, before the fawn-dropping commenced, but I don't know how much effect that would have on the number of does nursing at this time.

I've yet to kill anything but a few birds, so I don't know what the does are like. But I have seen some HUGE fawns this year, and I seem to be seeing fewer does with twins. Does with single fawns have more milk for that one so they grow bigger, faster, and, perhaps, wean earlier.

Whew! That is all a bit of a stretch so don't hold me to any of it.

BD,

He'll be with me but won't be shooting. He's just getting into shooting his .22lr a bit. We'll work our way up to the deer sized rifles at his pace.

I don't have a problem letting him shoot one on my tag. Hell, I'm all for it.

Dry doe, no fawns, simple as that I think.

My doe was not "dry".

I feel kind of bad about that with our deer numbers as dangerously low as they are.

I have trail cam photos right up into deer season of fawns nursing on does. So I don't think the fawns quit early, not around here anyways.

Coyotes, wolves and even bears take a toll on fawns.

So either we had a large crop of weaned doe early or a bunch of unbred ones just based on what we are seeing from the field.

Of note the fawns we are seeing are also fairly large.

I stopped by one of the local lockers at noon, and they are seeing way below normal processing and hide turn ins. Not a consistent or accurate measurement to be sure but something we kind of follow.

Sounds like the food shelf won't be getting much venison this year.

T, I may be having a Ruger UL in .257 Roberts coming up for sale soon if your shopping around, dies, brass, etc.

last deer I shot previous to this year's doe was a 2009 doe, she was a bigger doe body wise, but dry.

Who knows?

Here's to wishing the kids and the ladies the best of luck going into this final weekend of our 2012 rifle season.

Because I wanted to procrastinate, I wandered down the hall and asked someone about deer numbers who is in better position to know than I.

Of the does born last spring, about 80% will be impregnated this month and give birth to 1 fawn next summer. But up in the Northwoods, this would be more like 15% of those animals will breed as 6 month old deer.

Of the older, adult does, nearly all will breed and down here, they will average twins with a few barren does and a few triples. Up there, expect something more like 1.6-1.8 fawns per adult doe.

Of the fawns born this year, maybe 50% or a bit more are still alive down here. Up there, probably more like 40% maybe a bit less.

Those are just ballpark figures and local conditions, year to year variation etc. will modify those numbers in either direction.

Brent

I can't doubt or dispute any of that.

Remember it is just ballparking. Very roughly. That 40% fawn survival in particular seems a bit high. Might be quite a lot lower where coyotes and esp. bears matter a lot.

I'm all ears on that one.

I don't think this is given enough credit in most areas.

Lots of good insight there. Thanks brent.

I suspect you are right. I know bears are the #1 killers of moose calves in most parts of the continent. But lately, wolves get all the blame.

Bears take a lot of fawns in northern wisconsin.