Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Our past election and firearm investment

I'm not a semi auto guy, don't own a single one, although I have in the past decades ago. However with the recent turn of events I think I would like to get one now before I cannot. I'm not a collector so what I buy I want to use.

I make no mistake that the personal defense type handguns are not hunting worthy so having something that can harvest big game is not a real concern. I do like bigger heavier bullets so the .45 seems like the one that fits my ideas. Having seen big heavy bullets and tissue trauma for my entire career over several decades has me very opinionated about the success they have crumpling living things.

Next I want it to fall between the ability to shoot well and carry concealed ( yeah who doesn't). With this I've looked a bit at the options. Not being an expert in anyway on semi autos, I default to the 1911 which is pretty well thought out and has countless after market options, along with the plethora of choices. The smaller versions are the most likely option to make it packable. I do not have any interest in the full size 1911's

Since looking and poking about on the net, with friends, and gun shops, I have seen several that look simply made for my needs. I have had quite a few hunters in my career that worked for CIA, FBI, Special Forces, and Swat. Their input has been interesting and with "etched in stone" opinions that cannot be argued. ( not by me)

It would have been nice if they all had the same opinion !

The choice would have been easy then.

I have an amazing attraction to the Kimber super carry pro
There is so much negativity and so many rumors about the quality control and dependability of these guns, no matter how awesome they seem, that freaks me out. There is just too much bad spoken about these.

The next is the Sig 1911 two tone. There is not a bad word spoken by anyone anywhere I could find about the Sig. Each person that has owned tested reviewed or shoots one is in love with it.

However that Kimber is just beautiful, although they are also quite proud of it. looks like it's gonna be well over a grand, the Sig looks to be in the 850.00 range.

Who are the other 1911 players that should be considered? Is the 3" barrel a problem all together or just with Kimber? The Sig's 3.3" barrel has never had a negative word posted or stated anyplace, yet some other 3" 45ACP semi autos seem to struggle with fail to feed and extract issues?

Share your thoughts on this, I'm gonna "pull the trigger" on this sooner then later.

JJ,
Where I come down on the barrel length issue is this..........the standard 5" was JMB's original design, and is the most proven and reliable over the last 100yrs. It also provides the shooter with the most sight radius, and hits count most. If using quality leather (never a reason not to), the full size is not any harder to conceal than the shorter ones. Any concealment challenges actually come from the full size grip frame, not the slide. So while I've got an Colt Officer's Model, which has been 100% reliable and carried for a few years, along with a couple Commanders, I shortly settled on the 5" platform and have NO regrets.

I've got a Kimber TLE (same features as the LAPD gun), and it's been a superb pistol. There were some glaring CQ issues with my dad's gun which was ordered at the same time. But the value/$ ratio 11yrs ago great. The SA TRP was my next choice, but more coin---------but also more pistol, and I didn't like the factory bling it came with. Solid value otherwise.......at the time anyway. TODAY I'd look at Les Baer or SA's Custom Shop. Neither is inexpensive, but both are very high quality, and high value IMO. Good luck............the 1911 market can make your head spin if you don't stay focused.

Jim,

I have had more than a couple, and the Kimbers come from the factory sometimes kinda too tight in the specs. They pride themselves on tight specs and great accuracy out of the box but because of the tight specs they DO sometimes (Not always) need either a long break in period or some judicious radiusing and polishing in a couple of key spots. IF you get the Kimber, and I like them a great deal, make sure it has at least a 4 inch barrel and then if it is a tad sticky out of the box I have had them that ran this way and hae successfully polished them up to run 100% rather easily.

A 4 inch is generally a relaible gun and not really any harder to carry or conceal than a 3 inch. Easier to shoot well and a bit of a velocity boost as well vs a 3 inch. I carry a 5 inch 1911 in 10MM as you know and conceal it pretty easily but I am a size XXL and this helps some. For most I think a 4 inch is a good compromise of lightweight, carry and concealability with reliability and function plus hitability. I did really well at the 24hrcf Bowling Pin Shoot with my 4 inch Kimber Pro Carry, didnot find the 4 inch barrel to be a liability and actually shot that pistol better than any otherI have ever had. Wish I had not sold it, but needed the money at the time, sigh...

I will have a compact 45ACP Star PD in my possesion in a few days that you can try out and if it shoots well and you like it I will give you a smokin great deal on it.

MARK

JJ,

Your choice of the Kimber Super Carry Pro is an outstanding one. Basically, it�s their version of the LW Commander with just �� less barrel. Your choice is very feature rich, well thought out, and a fantastic looking pistol to boot. Marry that with a world class IWB holster and you�re just DONE. I would recommend reading my �Concealed Carry Mantra� to understand my mindset: http://shootersjournal.net/kevins-c...guns-pocket-guns-and-nothing-in-between/


My choice is a LW Commander. Mine is absolutely reliable, has magnificent ergonomics, is flatter than pretty much any other full size .45 ACP, and at 27.5 oz; it�s a pretty light weight full size auto. I personally carry a SW1911PD with tritium sights and CTC laser grips; kinda think of it as my �night fighter�. If I had to do it all over again, I think I�d look very seriously at the Colt�s as they are once again turning out top notch pistols. But the Kimber Super Carry Pro is a bit more feature rich than the Colt�s, so I think yours is an excellent choice, and I think you�ll just absolutely love it. So, go get one, and then place an order for a Mitch Rosen ARG holster�order an �Express Line� and you�ll pay around 90.00 and it should ship almost immediately.

Kevin, thanks for taking the time on this, and for the linked article. I have been packing a .44 mag mountain gun for 20 years. Half of that time was while working and needing a gun that powerful. Over that time I have learned to appreciate the function of a great holster for all the reasons you stated.

Mark, as always you're on of the best resources I know. I find it troubling that spending 1000-1300 on a custom gun would require one second or additional penny of work to make it reliable. However that does seem to happen as often as the flawless model being delivered by Kimber. How can a gun that has this much custom effort applied, have the mountains of owners that hate it and complain about the 90-95% reliable function?

Many still struggle even after 1000 rounds? Yet a gun like the Sig has only glowing reviews with most claiming anything you shoot is flawless from day one! The internet is not the best or only resource to learn from in all cases. However the difference in opinion between these two specific brands seem to be the best and worst of the higher end 1911's

I'm just stumped that so many people feel so strongly that the Kimber 1911's are so unreliable to feed and eject at 100%? With that said, they are the most feature rich and beautiful 1911's I've seen. One of the reasons I'm taking my time here. I'm going to make an educated decision on this. I'm willing to pay for quality and have a beautiful gun that will work flawless, I'm also patient to learn, so I make the right choice

You might also look at the Dan Wesson Guardian. 4.25" slide and bobtailed aluminum frame. Can't be beat (for the $ of course), in my opinion. If you can stand to lose a round, the CCO is nice as well. It's my regular carry pistol.

CCO


Guardian

One of the reasons you hear of more problems with Kimbers is that Kimber has a LOT more of them out there. Kimber has been leading the market for a long time, so they have much more opportunity for someone to find one with some issues. But also keep in mind, that Kimber always seems to be the one that is winning all the serious bids for pistols; the Marines, and a couple of years ago Kimber got the Tacoma PD bid with their LW Commander version. Of the organizations/agencies that are using 1911�s in one form or another, there is a very high percentage who are using Kimber.

My personal experience is that Kimber makes a damn good pistol at a downright decent price. I�ve also learned that Kimber treats their customers right. If something isn�t working perfectly right out of the box, if you�ll just take the time to give Kimber the opportunity to make it right, they will.

Sorry, posted in the wrong forum.

Jim - I use and carry a custom Commander (1970's vintage King's Gunworks). The 4.25" barrel is fine, it is one of the most accurate 1911s I've owned or fired and it has been dead-nuts reliable. I would prefer something in that size range than the 3-inch barreled versions. I used it to win my class several years in my local action pistol club so it has had a lot of rounds through it with nothing more than replacing the recoil spring.

Rick

1, Let's be real here: 1000-1300 doesn't buy you a custom gun these days. It buys you a production gun the manufacturer refers to as "Custom."
2. "Features" are cheap and beauty is as beauty does.

I have had a Sig 1911, SXT version, for several years now, no complaints at all.

JJ... if I may weigh in on this question (somewhat late, I realize, but Real Life has intruded on my internet gun forum time lately!)...

Many, if not most casual/recreational 1911 users will disagree with me on this, but in my experience you should not rely on a box-stock entry-level 1911 for daily defensive carry. In my view the minimum you can get away with paying for an ultra-reliable carry 1911 is about $1000, and even then you'll probably want to spend a bit more over and above that.

The reason is that the 1911, unlike more modern designs like Glock and SIG, is a fussy and finicky old design that has a lot of carefully fitted parts that tend to "fall out of fit" or break.

If you want a 45 ACP autoloader that you can bet your life on straight out of the box for under $1000, get a SIG P220 or a Glock. I carried a 1911 on SWAT duty for a couple of years, and it was a good 1911, but I switched out to the SIG P220 and never looked back. I liked my 1911's a lot, but the SIG is simply a better pistol.

If you're dead set on a 1911, then the minimum you should be looking at is the Kimber TLE II or Springfield Operator, both of which can be found for about $1100 or so. Throw away the factory magazines and buy a dozen top-end mags from Chip McCormick or Bill Wilson or Tripp. I have all 3 makes and they've all served me well. Then take the gun to a good pistolsmith who specializes in 1911's and have him do a reliability tune-up on it. Cost of aftermarket mags and tuning will tally you another $300-$500, depending, but in the end you'll have a very reliable and very accurate pistol. A pistol that you'll have to take back to the gunsmith for a checkup every 5000 rounds or so, so factor that into the cost, too, unless you're already a 1911 gunsmith.

Most guys who shoot their 1911's a lot, like I do, will nod their heads and quietly agree. Jeff Cooper used to say a man needs 3 1911's: one to carry, one in the safe as a spare for when the gun in your holster breaks, and one at the gunsmith's getting worked on... a constant 3-gun rotation. I don't think it's quite that bad with the newer guns, but I keep 3 fullsize 1911's around anyways, and yes, there have been times when I've had two of the three in the shop for necessary work. If you only shoot a couple hundred rounds through your guns per year, you likely won't have that problem. My problem is due to the fact that I shoot several thousand rounds through each of my 1911's every year...

Don't get me wrong: I love my 1911's, and I shoot them a LOT. But the romantic cachet of Ol' Slabsides is kind of like the attractiveness of a lot of women I've known... high-maintenance, and not so reliable, but damn exciting and fun to be with when everything's going well.

Sorry but I VERY RESPECTFULLY disagree with DocRocket. Nothing that he said is wrong per-se, but I don't agree with his conclusion.

I come across factory 1911�s all the time that have required no work at all and function perfectly. My personal S&W Commander has been lightly customized by me, but I�ve done absolutely nothing to it for function; it�s all been cosmetic or convenience. I have shot a number of very inexpensive Rock Islands and Taurus 1911�s that function absolutely flawlessly.

Where 1911�s have been getting a bad rap is the shooting schools. These schools have several days of hundreds of rounds per day, and then try to sell their students that this is �realistic� training. Each scenario may or may not be realistic, but shooing hundreds of rounds per day, several days straight with little to no cleaning of your pistol has NO correlation to real life combat conditions for a pistol; and that goes triple for a civilian. For concealed carry, you need a pistol that will function 100% with the ammunition carried on your person; and you really don�t need more than that. But you need the peace of mind to KNOW that when your gun comes out, every magazine you're carrying will function flawlessly and every round will go bang like it's supposed to; once you�re empty, you�re done. To think you�ll fight day after day armed with only a pistol, with no opportunity to maintain your pistol, while consuming thousands of rounds; that�s Hollywood. I�ve never even heard RUMOR of a pistol being shot that much in the real world.

My LW Commander gets around 1k of rounds through it per year, and has done so now for 9 years; I have yet to encounter a malfunction, nor have I encountered a broken part�keeping in mind, this is functionally an out of the box gun. My "cleaning" is laughably simple consisting of quick wipe down of the inside of the slide, outside of the barrel, and the frame around the feed ramp, barrel channel, and magazine well, I don�t clean my pistol but about once or twice a year. After shooting, I wipe down aforementioned contact surfaces, and lightly re-lube. Once or twice a year I�ll actually clean the bore. I have 9 years and nearly 10,000 rounds through my LW Commander without a single hitch; am I�m not well armed, or is my pistol insufficiently reliable?

If you�re going to put a thousand rounds a month through your pistol and never clean it; the 1911 may not be for you. But if you�re going to shoot a couple thousand rounds per year, and maintain your pistol reasonably well, then there�s nothing wrong with the 1911 at all.

Are there better pistols? Well �better� is a very subjective term. Are there pistols that are more accurate, more reliable, and much more forgiving of abuse; absolutely. Is there a .45 ACP that�s lighter, flatter, easier to shoot, more fun to shoot; yet still ADEQUATELY reliable, than my LW Commander? No, not really.

It all comes down to what you really NEED from a pistol. If you NEED bragging rights on web forums of the baddest ass pistol that is the choice of high speed, low drag special operators; then maybe one should look at something other than a 1911. If you NEED a pistol that will take 5,000 rounds per month with little to no maintenance, perhaps you should be looking at something other than a 1911.

If you don�t NEED the same thing as the internet commando�s or the real commando�s, but happen to like the 1911 for any number of reasons; then I see nothing wrong with it, provided yours is 100% reliable every time you ask it to perform.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the Glock & Sig as recommended by DocRocket; they are VERY good pistols, and one would do well to take Doc�s advice. But I don�t agree that everyone needs the �ultimate reliability� in a defensive pistol. Back in the day when �ultimate reliability� was just a pistol that never malfunctions through normal use; yeah, we needed �ultimate reliability�. But these days, almost all pistols will give you 100% reliability with normal use. It�s when you give considerable abuse that things begin to change. If you consider the massive abuse to be realistic FOR YOU, then you may not want the 1911.

Jim, If you want to try a SIG 220, I have one of those on hand as well, in the ELite configuration with Tritium sights, short reset trigger, coated Stainless Steel frame etc. and a 22LR conversion kit. Also for sale of course ! It actually belongs to an attorney freind that we both know who asked me to take it to a gun show for him. REALLY nice gun, and I can sell you the whole package including the 22LR upper for about what a Kimber would run you. They are bigger and heavier than a Kimber Pro Carry or similar, but dead nuts reliable and accurate x 10.

I agree with Kevin Gibson much more than Doc Rocket on the 1911 topic, I have had many that ran thousands of rounds flawlessly and they are VERY well represented in competition circles where reliability is paramount as well as now again with the US military after many grueling trials. Our local Sherrif, John Turner, who has been in many real life battles including over in the sandbox while active duty not so long ago carries a good 1911 as his daily carry piece and he flat knows his combat weapons.

Give all of mine, 1911 x 2 and the Sig and others, a try out next week if you get the time. MARK

This Colt LW Commander has been %100 reliable as it came from the factory:



As much as I like the 5" steel frame 1911's, for carrying alot the LW Commander is much more comfortable.

Do yourself a favor and at least check out S&W's M&P. It's a fine handgun. Revolver users will take to this one like a good high class revolver. Pass on the safety.

Nice rig! And you're right, at least in my experience. I've carried quite a few different rigs, including 3 different 1911s since I got my CHL. The first one was a Kimber SIS Pro (steel framed Commander). Nice rig, and I had zero problems with it, but it was heavy.

I traded it for the CCO, which (for me) is perfect. My Guardian would be my second choice. One thing I've done on both the Kimber and the CCO is swap the grips out for slim grips (VZ 320s on the CCO and Alumagrips on the SIS Pro). It makes a difference in how it feels in the hand and how it carries.

I carry a few different guns in a holster, but I have a full size, all steel .38 Super that is quite a bit heavier than my LW Commander, and when I carry it; I don�t notice the extra weight all that much. To me, that holster offsets that weight difference. No doubt, the LW Commander does carry a little better/lighter. But the full size isn�t uncomfortable at all.

If you are concerned about a gun that you may no longer be able to get then I would focus on the more modern and high capacity guns

I dislike and distrust our dictator no less than anyone on here, but I do not think guns in the 1911 category are at risk

The only handguns I see that are at a potential risk are the ones that have a capacity larger than 10 rounds

I would look at Glocks, Smith & Wesson M&Ps, and Springfield XDs

ALL 3 are excellent guns and if you get one, buy as many mags as you'll ever need

I gotta say, I really don�t see any gun control going through. Everyone says it�s his last term, what does he have to lose? Well, they said that about pretty much every 2nd term presidents, and most are less agenda driven, not more. On the 2nd term, they�re looking for a legacy, but the PARTY is looking to perpetuate control. So the party will want to take a less radical approach, and most in the Democratic party realize that gun control has been, and will continue to be a loser for them. Oh, they�ll test the water from time to time, and Obama has done that a couple of times. But American isn�t interested, and the Dems are mostly smart enough to realize it. So while the Chuck Schumer�s of the world are always looking for any ban they can get, the majority of the Democratic party isn�t interested. Republicans still hold the house, and while I don�t just blindly trust someone on the issue of gun control because they have an �R� next to their name; the republican base will not tolerate a Republican who�s looking for gun control.

In short, they�ll test the waters, but I doubt it will go much further than that. Even if someone presents a bill, they will first have a hard time finding a sponsor, and then it will never get past the House.

What's the election got to do with buying a 1911? Unless they get about all the guns it's unlikely the .45 auto is gonna be on any hit list.

Go ahead and buy the Kimber. I've yet to see a PAC NW guy on here that doesn't just gush over them. Others not so much. You'll end up with the Kimber anyway. I don't think I've ever seen one of these threads started by a guy from Oregon or Washington that doesn't end up getting the [bleep] Kimber. There have been a number of them too. It almost always goes...majority-"get the Springfield Loaded"...after two or three days...poster dude-"I got the Kimber".

lol