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Can you load a heavy 223 bullet with a light powder charge to achieve a subsonic load like the 300 Blackout does with heavy bullets?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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According to QL, about half a case of slow cannon powder might get you in the general vacinity.... But the pressures look really low, and I'm sure what kind of risks that may introduce....I've never tried it, so I don't know what would really happen.
Cartridge : .223 Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .224, 90, Sierra HPBT MatchKing 9290 G7 Litz
Useable Case Capaci: 22.618 grain H2O = 1.469 cm�
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 20.0 inch = 508.0 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Muzzle Velocity: 950 fps or 289 m/s
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
90 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 50%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Hodgdon Retumbo 51.6 10.8 0.70 950 32.5 6189 1396 2.813
Vihtavuori N570 51.6 11.3 0.73 950 27.8 6220 1392 2.957
Hodgdon H870 56.6 12.2 0.79 950 28.3 6253 1412 2.957
Vihtavuori 24N41 53.9 12.0 0.78 950 27.7 6415 1353 2.770
Hodgdon 50BMG 57.8 12.2 0.79 950 26.0 6392 1372 2.915
ADI AR 2218 56.0 12.4 0.81 950 25.7 6450 1358 2.905
Hodgdon US 869 59.0 13.1 0.85 950 26.8 6427 1382 2.921
Accurate 8700 64.2 13.7 0.89 950 27.1 6525 1376 2.906
Alliant Reloder-50 61.7 13.9 0.90 950 25.4 6275 1458 2.888
Vihtavuori 20N29 65.2 14.6 0.95 950 25.5 6503 1410 2.877
Vihtavuori N170 50.7 10.5 0.68 950 33.6 6081 1422 2.824
Last edited by antelope_sniper; 11/24/12.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
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Can you load a heavy 223 bullet with a light powder charge to achieve a subsonic load like the 300 Blackout does with heavy bullets? Everybody has heard of the Blackout/Whisper, but no one has ever heard of the concoction you're pondering......think about it. There just might be an excellent reason.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Also, with a long bullet, and a low velocity it would require a really fast twist. There's a good chance the bullet would hit the paper sideways.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Haven't thought about the sideways hit. The 300 has a fat bullet for length. Makes sense. I guess if it had been tried, it would be commonplace. Silencers are so expensive plus the $200 stamp.
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The 77gr SMK can be loaded subsonic but I forget the powder.
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TWR, have you shot these? If so, are they quiet? I have two AR's, one 1/8.5" and one 1/9" 16" barrels. Never used trail boss, what amount of powder? Is trail boss similar to black powder in power yet smokeless?
Last edited by Dixie_Dude; 11/25/12.
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I don't have a can yet but a buddy does and he loads that powder.
Sierra Match King.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I can give you a batch of loads to accomplish that...
but as mentioned, you have to have a barrel that has the twist to stabilize the bullet...
and secondly, it certainly won't cycle an AR, unless you were planning to manually cycle it..
for a bolt action with the right twist.... what bullet weight ya want it at,... and what MV are you looking for?
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Ok, It seems like it is more trouble than it is worth. I think just buying a 22" bolt action 22LR and shooting CB longs or some sub sonic ammo is a better cost option. No getting a $200 stamp, no monkeying with reloads on 223. And the cost of a Marlin 22" long bolt action 22 is a lot less than the $1,500 or so to buy a suppressed 300 Blackout
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Don't forget about bullet energy. A 75-90 grain 22 cal bullet going 1000FPS probably has almost twice the killing power of a 22LR.
Last edited by Rusky; 11/25/12.
I've been so overwhelmed with fake news that I'm now nuts. Let's go Brandon
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Yep, that is true, but I read somewhere that you have to go about 1,800 fps just to cycle an AR. So, it might become single shot. Just can't seem to justify spending $1,500 to go quiet, unless I was going to snipe or hunt deer or hogs quietly.
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That's why my can is for 22 lr (when my paper work clears) and I bought the 9mm AR, a can will probably follow for it too.
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For me, the primary purpose of shooting supersonic rounds through a suppressor is to mask my rifle's signature, so the varmint does not know where the shot originated.
If you want subsonic rounds, then you'll have to load heavy bullets over small amounts of powder.
There are lots of 'cat sneeze' loads using Blue Dot on the 'net.
George
Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!
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Hodgdon does show only one Trail Boss load for the .223 - 4 grains under a 55gr bullet for 1074 fps. I can't imagine that cycling an action.
1680 is the recommended subsonic powder for the .300 Blackout. It uses 10 to 11 grains, and works well.
The .224 bullets are going to have much better BC than typical rimfire bullets, but the latter might kill better. I had no trouble killing raccoons last year, with subsonic .22's
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire Kahuna
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we just used two of seafires "catsneeze" loads on deer recently.
MUCH quieter than normal. Around 2000 fps vs well over 3000 for an 80 grainer in 243.
I'd go look at trail boss or blue dot and remember you need a frangible bullet if going really slow. Same as a normal one won't expand at say 1000 yards much if any... so pick the right projectile and slow it down as needed.
300 AAC or as original... thats been around for a LONG time, 300 Whisper, isn't expensive to build either. Compared to 223 uppers that is.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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IME, Hornady SXSP bullets work great below 1k'with Trail Boss. But I run them in my bolt rifle. A friend of mine tried the same loads in his AR with a can: wouldn't cycle the bolt, and the bullet didn't clear the barrel.
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I don't have a can. I was just wondering what loads if you didn't have a can. Thanks, might have to get some trail boss. I have a lot of 44mag and 45-70 as well as 38 sp lead bullets that might work with trail boss.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Without a can, you won't get quiet really, but you will get quieter.
My 2000 fps load... according to a hunter 600 yards behind me, over a hill, it sounded like a bottle rocket went up, but then kinda a dud with a thump. My buddy 600 yards away the direction I shot, said it wasn't loud, about like a 22 mag or so. Another buddy 1200 yards same direction said he thought we might have shot at a turkey with a 22LR....
Again thats 80 nos BT varmints and 12 gains of Blue Dot FWIW
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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