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#7130802 - 12/01/12 04:39 AM Re: 338 Win Mag and Long range hunting? [Re: m77]
Azshooter Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 2942
Loc: Tucson, Az.
When I think of LR I think of high BC bullets regardless of velocity. Just for grins crunch the numbers for the 300 gr Berger Match Grade Elite Hunter. BC is .818 (G1) or .419 (G7) They just began making this bullet in the hunting version.

Sure you won't get stunning velocities but it will buck wind and have incredible energy downrange. I would estimate velocity from a 26" rifle to be 2650 or more. Crunch those numbers and you might agree.

I built a slower package with this bullet in the OTM configuration as they didn't offer the hunting version at the time. It is a long throated 338 RCM with a 30" barrel. I shot a coues wt at 400 yds with little meat damage. I admit it was a chip shot and the rifle is capable of much longer shots. Vel was a mundane 2550 fps. BUT wind drift at 4000 ft is a mere 8.8 inches in a 10 mph 90 degree crosswind with 3138 ft/lb of energy.

Imagine what the extra 100 fps would do! I crunched a few numbers:

drift under same conditions 8.2" and 3411 ft/lb

If the 300 gr seems too extreme there is always the
250 gr Match Grade Elite Hunter BC of .682(G1) .349(G7)

If there are any doubt as to performance check out this thread where the 300 gr Match Hybrid OTM Tactical version wacks a few animals.

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f19/berger-230-300-otm-hybrid-terminal-results-80283/

Sure the owner used a 338 Lapua with the bullet vel of 2800 fps but if you factor in the distance with some of the shots a 338 win mag will perform similarly at distances 100 yds closer.

Just a thought.


Edited by Azshooter (12/01/12 04:41 AM)
Edit Reason: typo

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#7131544 - 12/01/12 09:29 AM Re: 338 Win Mag and Long range hunting? [Re: Azshooter]
MontanaMarine Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Registered: 09/25/01
Posts: 8006
Loc: Canyon Ferry, Montana
I was close to doing a 338WinMag LR rig some years back.

I calc'd 300gr SMKs loaded to 3.55" would fit easily in a Rem magazine, and should make 2550 fps at about 60k psi, via moly, RL22, and a 26" bbl.

The downrange energy/drift numbers are impressive.

Trajectory is not that bad either, beats 308Win/175SMK 2600 fps.

With the new Berger 250s/300s, and newer powders, it only gets better.

I think the 338WinMag has a lot of potential for LR use, and barrel life should be very good to boot.
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#7131604 - 12/01/12 09:56 AM Re: 338 Win Mag and Long range hunting? [Re: MontanaMarine]
Mule Deer Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 07/24/01
Posts: 33717
Loc: Banana Belt, Montana
One of the virtues of the .338 RM is the bore/powder capacity ratio is just about like that of the .30-06. Thus barrel life is indeed considerably longer than with "real" magnums.
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John

The ultimate concern of a rifle loony is rifle trivia. And why not? What else is as distracting from the really important concerns of everyday life?

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#7131608 - 12/01/12 09:58 AM Re: 338 Win Mag and Long range hunting? [Re: Mule Deer]
Mark R Dobrenski Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 04/19/01
Posts: 28277
Loc: Bozeman, Montana
I was just gonna say I've used the .340 a lot and yet if I did another 33 of some kind I'd most likely go 338 WM. Reminds me a ton of using an 06 and or a 308 as it's incredibly capable and does well at long range but isn't a caustic bastard in guns of a weight I'd actually port around anymore.

Dober
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#7134009 - 12/01/12 09:05 PM Re: 338 Win Mag and Long range hunting? [Re: m77]
bigsqueeze Offline
Campfire Tracker

Registered: 01/04/09
Posts: 6307
Loc: So Cal
Originally Posted By: m77
Hi there.

In reality a 338 Win Mag is not really a magnum. It Achieves only moderate velocities compared to other magnums.

I would like to know from the experts or regular long range guys here, what is the 338 Win Mag capable of. On large game like Kudu, Oryx, Wildebeest and Eland what is the max distance you would use a 338 Win Mag for? What bullet weight?

I know this is pretty open for discussion, but shooting metal plates and paper at long range is not hunting and I would rather find out from you guys how it performs on game before one try something stupid smile

Thanks

Pieter
..............Very good questions regarding the 338 WM. Aside from the 30 & 375 cals, the 338 cal is another top all around favorite of mine. No doubt the 338 Win Mag is most popular 338 for many reasons.

However I cannot comment on how a 338 WM would do at longer ranges on African plains game because as of yet I haven`t been to Africa yet, and have yet to kill anything with my own 338. laugh laugh

As most everyone would do for re-assurance purposes just as you are doing here; asking viable questions for a potential new rounds usage, there are other 338s where no questions as to capabilities need be asked.

I always thought of owning a 338 but never got around to it until about a couple of years ago.

Although the 338 Lapua and 338 RUM fall into about the same category, the 338-378 Wby is one round where the only questions should be,,,rifle how much?,,,is in my budget to buy and to reload for?

So after 40+ years of hunting and shooting, my first and only 338 rifle to date as of roughly a couple of years ago is the 338-378 Wby Accumark w/brake. Preferred the Wby Accumark`s looks and format vs a Remmy chambered in a 338 RUM. And I can always load it down to medium to high 340 Wby and 338 RUM performance levels if desired and sometimes do.

When it came to the 338-378 Wby, I felt going in, that there were no questions of re-assurances that needed to be asked. I just jumped right in.

There are always opinions for "re-assurance" that are asked for and should be asked for. But then again there are certain rounds that should leave no doubts on the table whatsoever.
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300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger



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#7134058 - 12/01/12 09:22 PM Re: 338 Win Mag and Long range hunting? [Re: m77]
Sheister Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 3349
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: m77
Hi there.

In reality a 338 Win Mag is not really a magnum. It Achieves only moderate velocities compared to other magnums.

I would like to know from the experts or regular long range guys here, what is the 338 Win Mag capable of. On large game like Kudu, Oryx, Wildebeest and Eland what is the max distance you would use a 338 Win Mag for? What bullet weight?

I know this is pretty open for discussion, but shooting metal plates and paper at long range is not hunting and I would rather find out from you guys how it performs on game before one try something stupid smile

Thanks

Pieter


Pieter,
I used my Pre 64 Model 70 338 WM in South Africa in 2000. It worked very well on Kudu, Wildebeest, Zebra, Impala, Gemsbok, and every other animal I pulled a trigger on. Eland wasn't on the bag list, but I am quite confident it will easily take an eland with no problem. In fact, where it would be legal I wouldn't feel under gunned using one on Cape Buff.

My pre 64 runs a 22" custom barrel and runs about 2680 fps through the chrono. My longest shot in South Africa was about 300 yards for a Blue Wildebeest. I also shot a large moose with it in Alberta Canada (about the size of a large Eland) and it went down like hit with a sledgehammer.

My Classic Model 70 .338 runs a 26" barrel and runs about 120 fps faster. I've shot elk (about the size of a large Kudu) at 600 yards and it punched through just fine using the Nosler Partition. In Africa, I used the Swift A-frames to great affect. They both shoot to the same point of aim, along with the Hornady Spire Points- all in 225 grain.

Hope this helps you out. I would think you would get this type of results with the .300 Win Mag also with good bullets. Using the Ultra Mags, Edge, Lapua, or Weatherby versions will gain you a couple hundred yards ballistically, but I doubt they will kill any better at longer ranges than the good old .338 Win Mag. In fact, I'm wrestling right now whether to build a .338 RUM or just stay with my tried and true old fashioned "Non magnum Magnum" and just keep killing critters with it.

Bob
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#7134151 - 12/01/12 09:59 PM Re: 338 Win Mag and Long range hunting? [Re: m77]
Westcoaster Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 1040
Loc: British Columbia
I'll first off say that I am not an expert but I do shoot my 338wm a fair amount out to 500 yards. The best way I can describe it is that I know where the bullet is going to hit everytime.

My 338wm is a Winchester Model 70 Classic with a #4 weight 26" barrel. I shoot 250 grain bullets. For hunting I use Swift AFrames and I practice with Hornady Interlocks. With 71 grains of H4831sc I'm getting 2600 to 2650 at the muzzle.

I have had good results on game out to 500 yards with this rig. The accuracy is good and the POI does not seem to be affected by wind too much. Bullet penetration has been good at range and too good at less than 300 yards.

The AFrames have held together well in every kind of animal and the more modest velocity does not seem to bloodshot the meat.

I have not hunted Africa but Elk and Moose are what I would call large with a large northern moose going over 1000 pounds for reference. I have taken these and bears out to 400 yards and from the results I have seen I would, under the right conditions, take a 500 yards shot. Having said that the majority of my shots are under 200 yards.

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#7153390 - 12/06/12 11:29 PM Re: 338 Win Mag and Long range hunting? [Re: m77]
Clarkm Offline
Campfire Regular

Registered: 02/13/03
Posts: 1145
Loc: WA rain forest
Find the B.S.:

1) The 338WM is a 400 yard rifle.
2) The 338Edge is a 1600 yard rifle.
3) The velocity of the 338Edge at 200 yards is down to 338WM muzzle velocity, therefore the 338WM is a 1400 yard rifle.
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#7153718 - 12/07/12 05:39 AM Re: 338 Win Mag and Long range hunting? [Re: Clarkm]
Magnum_Man Offline
Campfire Guide

Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 2664
Late on the last day of a Wyo deer hunt 20+ yrs ago I didn't hold enuf into the wind with the M70 338 mag, I was shooting 200 gr Speers at max velocity. Hit that buck in the liver on the near side and out the guts on the farside. It made him very sick by the time I got to him he had bled out and died.Some folks don't or won't talk about the shots that didn't hit where they were supposed too, I will. The point?Over here when you wound and lose an animal you only have to live with your own conciousness, in Africa I've allways heard you do that and pay for it as well.Maybe your in a different situation like you allready own the game or your culling and it don't financially make a difference one way or another to you. I don't know and you didn't say. Good luck with deciding between it's too far or it's a chip shot and living with the results when they aren't ideal at all. Magnum Man

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#7154650 - 12/07/12 10:06 AM Re: 338 Win Mag and Long range hunting? [Re: m77]
rost495 Offline
Campfire Oracle

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 34747
Loc: La Grange, TX
Originally Posted By: m77
Originally Posted By: rost495
I know its not Kudu but its all I have and my longest 2 shots to date...

Mature Alaska caribou bull. 802 yards. 2 shots. 2 hits. Both very vital.

338 win mag and 225 Barnes X reloads. Very dead bull.

Inspection showed caliber entry wounds on both, and on both showed exits about dime size or so, IE the bullets did expand even though most say they could not have. Of course no recovery of bullets either.

I"ve shot a lot of deer with same load to around 450 or so.


What velocity are you getting with those 225 Barnes? I like the 225s as well. Thanks for the info

Pieter


Sorry but no clue anymore. I have drop and wind data but I forget the MV pretty quick once I"m set up.

24 inch tube, 73 or 75 of RL19 best I can recall.
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