Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Just Wondering What You Anti-Union Guys Think??

I have, USN. I lived. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

We need someone to stand up for the workers. At the present time it is the union. But I seen the union push for things like keeping an employee when he obviously should be fired. If there is no unions then work conditions will probably go bad. However, they should use common sense in deciding what to fight for and what not to fight for.

wiktor,

I didn't read the thread 'cause I think your are a troll.

I think it is sick to use a tragedy to make a point or further ones views.

Tony

This says it all. I have worked union and it was a nightmare. Granted that was years ago and thing could have changed a lot over time. I worked non union in the excavation business about six years ago. We build a shopping center, did all the undergrounds and all the dirt work. Then the union guys came in and we all worked together without a problem. It was good. The union came in and threw a lunch barbeque for everyone and invited us to come too. They were trying to get us to join and make out employer go union. When they started to talk wages with one of our operators and told him how much he would make he shouted I ain�t taking a nine dollar an hour cut for no union. Turns out we all had better pay, better insurance and retirement than they did. We had a better safety record and out company policy was 100% compliance all the time. They cut a few corners and OSHA handed them a pretty big ticket.

I am not anti union and I know they can be a big help in some places. They just aren�t for me at this time. Things may change for me in the future. BTW the excavation company I workef for is the same one I am headed back to for my retraining.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Exactly.

Kinda like the MSM. Only worse.

My first thought is that their union apparently didn't do them any good.

I don't think unions should be either illegal or government-mandated; but I think they're not necessary most places and largely corrupt where they are, and I know that if workers in my industry tried to unionize, they'd all be fired and nobody would hire them unless they dropped their silly ideas. I'm a software developer, and there are hordes of Indian programmers--both H1B immigrants and offshore outsources--clamoring to do what they imagine is my job for less money. Still, although I never have a single job for more than five or six years at the outside, whenever I lose one--even totally unexpectedly, even by being fired rather than laid off--I have another one within two or three months, so far without taking a dime of unemployment or other government handout.

I decide where I will work, what I will do, and under what conditions; and prospective employers decide whether they are willing to abide by those constraints in return for my services. If somebody said "union" to me I'd turn on my heel and walk away. And I like it that way.

If you're a miner, though, and you decide that instead of taking all your pay home you'd rather give a big chunk of it to a union, either be a slacker or be surrounded by slackers, sit through endless meetings, and get killed on the job anyway...well, I'm a libertarian: that's your business and I'll defend your right to make that choice for yourself. Don't try to make it for me, though: I think it's stupid.

Unions served a purpose in its day. But Government has taken over much of its domain. Safety now comes under OSHA. Employee rights and protection are under the EEOC, Wage standards are now under another part of the government.

To be honest I think Unions today are struggling to keep a place for themselves. Some are beginning to understand that the Government (Mostly under Democratic ideals) has not been for the best interests of the Unions.

In some ways I think that is sad. At least in most local shops there is a personal connection with the workers. Not so with Government control.

That sould do it for starters.

I have a hard time with government working unions. they are for the most part only politcal and are causing much havic in the public domain. ie Teaches unions etc.

The statement that unions somehow were necessary, or made things better for workers in the past is unadulterated b.s.. Successful unions came about AFTER industrial labor became short-supplied, and accompanied higher wages paid by industry for the supply-driven labor. All you union supporters need to quit rewriting school books. Unions are just legalized extortion rings, esp. the gov't ones.

It just ticks me off that "unions served a purpose in their day" has become unquestioned dogma. The purpose they served then is the same one they serve now: havens for criminals and blood-suckers, feeding off the ignorant.

Labor is a commodity just like all the others.

People who provide that labor should have the right to band together and negotiate their price for that labor.

A balance of power between labor and management is a microcosm of the balance of power which exists between government and the populace of a free society.

To deny collective bargaining to labor is to cast them in the role of indentured servants.

In an ethical capitalist society collective bargaining wouldn't be necessary,.... but, sad to say,.... ethics doesn't much figure in to our system.

Nobody is going to give you anything in life. Be prepared to fight for it our be prepared to lose it.

and decide what their products should sell for it's called price fixing.


"People who provide that labor should have the right to band together and negotiate their price for that labor."

Ask Ford and Chevy what they think of unions!!!
Their unions are going to cost their members thousands of jobs....the unions over powered the company they worked for and that is why you saw those great prices on trucks last year. The unions didn�t flex about work hours and benefits when the companies really needed it. Ask all those people who will be laid off what they think of their union.

"People who provide that labor should have the right to band together and negotiate their price for that labor."

Yep, and people (employers) who don't want to pay that price have a right to fire them all and hire willing permanent replacements, i.e. buy their labor elsewhere.

Unfortunately, workers DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to quit their Stalinist labor unions if they so desire, except for states where there is a right to work law.

"To deny collective bargaining to labor is to cast them in the role of indentured servants. "

And to deny the right to reject collective bargaining is to make them indentured servants to the labor union.

The only meaning of unions is that the greed of the few gets to outweigh the needs of the many.

In every state I've ever worked in, there has always been more non-union than union work.

I grew up in WV. My dad was a coal miner as were most of my uncles and some adult cousins at one point or another. I watched the United Mine Workers Union shoot themselves in the foot and and literally destroy the only industry that was keeping the state in business. I remember all the wildcat strikes and the violence toward supporting industries such as the truck drivers and railroads when they didn't strike or halt work with the UMW. As a result my generation packed up and left. We weren't able to start careers in our home state because of self-destructive unions.
I have absolutely nothing good to say about them and would be happy if the govt busted them up. They've outlived their usefulness. Not to mention that labor unions are communist products.
Workplace safety needs govt oversight and accountability, not greedy, self-serving, corrupt, organized crime-influenced labor unions.
Screw the unions.<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I think Unions have over reached in recent years.......mandating wages and benefits regardless of the financial conditon of the company, for example. On the other hand they have under reached in areas of safety and the actual welfare of the worker.

I agree to a point.If tragedies such as the mine disaster and a multitude of other things that affect our lives on and off the job were not brought into view and discussion then they would be quietly swept under the carpet to die.Just where people/companies of less than honorable character would rather have them be.

There are good unions and unions not worth a damn.I work for a large company that is union and at times it saddens my heart to be called one of "those people" or "Oh, you work over there". What usually follows is "Can you get me an application."When the company recently accected applications through the state employment office close to a thousand applicants were on hand and this is in a county with less than 5% unemployment.Unfortunately it got out of hand and I believe arrests were made.

In the last few years the company has built two new plants with heavy inffluence from the union in their planning ,constuction, floor layout and indeed in the very manufacturing process itself and when they were up and running they worked like a charm with few gliches.

As I have said there are good unions and bad ones.It is up to the rank and file to govern and decide.

Years ago I worked for a company that had two companies under it's banner.One union and the other non union.Both were indentical in every way.The union guys made almost triple what the others made.To this day both companies are alive and prosperous.

I'm a UAW member, have worked for Chevy for 22 years. You don't have a clue what your talking about.


My union dues are 1 hour's pay a month. So much for the union getting the majority of my pay check.

Health and Safety are still big issues that are dealt with thru the union. GM feels that these issues are of such a great importance that the committee is a joint operation, with both union and management represenitives participating. The only time OSHA gets involved is for accident investigation that involves a fatality.

Our biggest issue is the inability to bring a vehicle to the market that produdes a high demand. We can't seem to find the "gotto have it" car/truck/SUV

The thing I find the most amazing, the people that can see the lies the media produces concerning gun control believe the media is telling the truth when it involves union activism.